BEEF: BACON 2

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » March 21st, 2010, 19:59

I'd expect the m60 to get a bit more recoil.

There's no reason the m1911 should be less powerful, it's a .45 hand cannon.

Post by **Dog Pants** » March 21st, 2010, 20:09

I've still no issues with any of the weapons, but since even I've noticed getting killed by the 1911 more than other pistols then I expect there's a barrage of wailing and bad English on the DICE forums demanding it be nerfed.

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » March 21st, 2010, 20:12

Probably because it's a reasonable power early unlock.

I kill a lot of people with the Rex, it's a fair bit better than the m1911

Post by **Dog Pants** » March 21st, 2010, 20:24

Yeah, my default pistol is the Rex. Three torso shots I think takes people down.

buzzmong · Post by **buzzmong** » March 21st, 2010, 21:20

I think the main problem is that it unlocks alongside the M9 and before the MP-443, which it completely outclasses, kind of similar to the M60 in the way it dominates the available choices, although the rex does outclass it, it's a much higher unlock.

Arguably it shoudn't do as much damage as it does against armoured soldiers due it firing pistol rounds rather than rifle but ah well, I think it also does more damage than the Thompson in game although that's firing the same ammo technically.

Interesting to see what they do with the AA, I've seen it being used against Apaches in the form of the Russian tank and it didn't seem to do much, but I've used it to great effect against infantry before now. Unless they mean AA in general including the HMG's and such, in which case we'll probably see a small reduction in air armour.

As for the M60, I reckon we'll see a slight damage reduction and maybe a hip accuracy penalty. The stats on some of the webpages puts it nearly x2 more powerful than some of the other LMG's, and it does in the region of 30 damage without magnum ammo, the PKM is around 20 damage for comparison. I wonder if they'll randomise the first shot as well rather than it being 100% accurate as that'll stop people sniping with it.

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » March 21st, 2010, 21:29

buzzmong wrote:I think the main problem is that it unlocks alongside the M9 and before the MP-443, which it completely outclasses, kind of similar to the M60 in the way it dominates the available choices, although the rex does outclass it, it's a much higher unlock.

Seems to me that you get 2 choices with pistols.

Fast, low recoil.

Slow, high recoil.

Both are fairly effective, it's just you have to aim more with the bigger, slower guns.

I honestly haven't found any weapons that are massively, massively overpowered, just that some suit different playing styles.

Mr. Johnson · Post by **Mr. Johnson** » March 21st, 2010, 21:32

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:I honestly haven't found any weapons that are massively, massively overpowered, just that some suit different playing styles.

And besides, if you persevere and use a weapon long enough, you automatically get better with it.

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » March 21st, 2010, 21:39

Mr. Johnson wrote:And besides, if you play the game, rather than reading forums and whining, you automatically get better at it.

Fix'd

Post by **Dog Pants** » March 21st, 2010, 21:46

buzzmong wrote:I wonder if they'll randomise the first shot as well rather than it being 100% accurate as that'll stop people sniping with it.

I hope not, I rely on that to get any kind of range out of my SMGs.

Personally I wouldn't put much faith in what's said on the official forums because, as with all official forums, they're populated by reactionary, whiney, linguistically challenged idiots. The internet general public in fact. There probably are imbalances, but I'm not going to take the word of the raging illiterati for it, and my personal experience is that the weapon balancing isn't too bad. I've more of a problem with the connection issues, browser problems, and spawn-raping.

As for pistol damage vs rifle, the Colt 1911 fires .45, while I'll warrant most of the rifles fire 5.56mm or something similar. That's a fair size difference, as I believe is common in handguns.

buzzmong · Post by **buzzmong** » March 21st, 2010, 22:08

Oh pretty much all game forums with whine threads I take with a pinch of salt, but you know there's some basis when it appears that 95% of the whines are directed towards a couple of topics, currently the M60 and the 40mm GL.

There's a couple on there now about the M95 not being that good in comparison to the other rifles because it's not as accurate as the GOL/M24, yet ignoring the anti-material properties, sheer damage and the lack of drop. Some odd whines like that can be ignored, like people asking for one-shot kills with it.

As for an accuracy randomisation, I was thinking just more of a small cone on the first shot before exanding into the normal cone on continued fire, not a massive one and of various sizes on each gun (ie, slightly smaller for smg and assault), but enough that for long range shots it'll fall in a small area rather than pin-point accuracy, which means it'll still be accurate over mid range, but not at sniper ranges. Which is right.

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » March 21st, 2010, 22:14

You know the M60s effective range is 1100M, right?

You also know that's longer than most, if not all sniper shots in bacon?

buzzmong · Post by **buzzmong** » March 21st, 2010, 22:47

Yeap, I know, but my point was that in bacon it really shouldn't be outranging the snipers.

Mr. Johnson · Post by **Mr. Johnson** » March 21st, 2010, 22:56

I'd like to remind you of BEEF, where the PKM was (for a while) often one of the few defences you had against snipers.

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » March 21st, 2010, 22:56

Play the fucking game, stop reading forums.

Post by **Dog Pants** » March 21st, 2010, 22:58

I don't often recall getting shot from miles away by medics. Very often by snipers, but medics seem to get me at short range more often than not.

buzzmong · Post by **buzzmong** » March 21st, 2010, 23:02

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:

Play the fucking game, stop reading forums.

Duly noted.

Post by **HereComesPete** » March 22nd, 2010, 7:54

Or if you insist on reading forums go read about hathcock (sp?) who was putting scopes on hmg's and using their range to snipe at thousands of yards.

Personally I think the other medic guns need a bit of a buff to raise their game to the m60. I get killed by the m60 a lot, but mainly when I haven't shot the medic first.

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » March 22nd, 2010, 8:07

HereComesPete wrote:Or if you insist on reading forums go read about hathcock (sp?) who was putting scopes on hmg's and using their range to snipe at thousands of yards.

IIRC Carlos hathcock, and he held the range record with an M2, until the war on terror decided it'd be fun to shoot people from a bit further away

Post by **Dog Pants** » March 22nd, 2010, 8:11

It's not really a realism issue though is it? It's about gameplay balancing. This isn't ARMA. I'm sure Buzz is right about certain weapons being better, but I also think the difference isn't pronounced enough to be noticeable to anyone who doesn't pore over the stats and figures. After all, a good player with a PKM is more effective than a bad one with an M60.

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » March 22nd, 2010, 8:15

True enough.

Also, if you look at the stats, the M60 isn't that out there.

It's just a well balanced gun, decent accuracy due to a low ROF.

IMO it's exactly what it should be.

Perhaps it should be unlocked later, because it's a fairly potent toy, but I really don't have a problem using it, or being killed by it.