Modern Warfare 2 has third-person view

Baliame · Post by **Baliame** » November 7th, 2009, 14:25

Although the Lost Sales/Pirated Copies ratio crawls closer to 1 each time they don't listen to the PC community...

I see Pantsu's novel's (yeah... my eyes hurt.) point but do remember we're talking about a high end game. Most casuals will probably play it on a console, because although without a doubt they own a PC, they migrated to that market because it treats them better, or they just can't keep up with the hardware requirements. PC is about the hardcores, for every hardcore sale lost, they probably get about 0.1 casual sale. Or, well, I definitely hope so.

Post by **Dog Pants** » November 7th, 2009, 14:47

That was half my point. I don't think there is a casual PC market for high demand games, only for games you can play on your old PC World special. We don't know though, and I'll be interested to see how this pans out.

buzzmong · Post by **buzzmong** » November 7th, 2009, 15:19

There's a problem there with that thinking.

Valve nicely pointed it out the other year based on all their hardware surveys that a lot of the people who use Steam all have midlevel PC's, and they're not the hardcore who run top end rigs.

It's the reason why they're not pushing for graphics because it pointed out that a lot of frequent PC gamers (inbetween hardcore and casual and running midlevel machines) make up the biggest number of gamers.

Changes to MW2 is going to affect that PC demography, not just the hardcore. And they're the people who influence sales on a big scale.

Post by **deject** » November 7th, 2009, 16:04

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:Oh, and I'm not a thief, I don't deprive anyone of property by pirating a game (AFAIK no game devs are on commission*)

Saying it's not theft because you're not taking a physical item is a totally outdated notion in my opinion. In an age where products and services can exists entirely in the digital world and never be put on a portable physical medium (e.g.: CDs/DVDs), saying that it's not theft doesn't sound right to me at all. In the end, you're enjoying a product someone took time and money to make without paying the fee they want to charge for their product. Sure you weren't going to ever pay for it, and they're not missing any physical items, but I think that's pretty irrelevant these days.

I really don't care if you guys sweep it up, it makes no difference to me. I just think it's rather disingenuous to say you're not stealing, and it's why I've decided not to pirate games anymore.

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » November 7th, 2009, 16:26

I'm working on legal definitions which I'm pretty sure haven't changed recently (I can confirm with Eion if you really care enough)

But personally, I see pirating a game as about as evil as nicking a shot glass from a bar.

Sure it's not morally sound, but I'm not gonna buy one, I've already given the company a fair bit of money, and I have no issues in being a bit of a cupcake.

Post by **Dog Pants** » November 7th, 2009, 16:29

deject wrote:I really don't care if you guys sweep it up, it makes no difference to me. I just think it's rather disingenuous to say you're not stealing, and it's why I've decided not to pirate games anymore.

I don't pirate games either, but I don't think it's stealing. If a kid sneaks into a cinema is that stealing? If you read a magazine in a shop and don't buy it is that stealing? Because they're the same thing, just different media.

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » November 7th, 2009, 16:55

deject wrote:I just think it's rather disingenuous to say you're not stealing, and it's why I've decided not to pirate games anymore.

Well, I'm glad you can afford to make that choice, I can't.

It's mostly piracy for me, or no tukkake for 5punk.

Post by **Roman Totale** » November 7th, 2009, 17:02

It's not theft because I don't want it to be.

Don't think I've ever pirated a game before (wouldn't stake my life on that, mind), but I think COD42 will be the first thing that make me change that.

As it happens, I do think it's theft - and yet I simply do not care.

Post by **HereComesPete** » November 7th, 2009, 17:32

Dog Pants wrote: If a kid sneaks into a cinema is that stealing? If you read a magazine in a shop and don't buy it is that stealing?

I think the first one could well be in terms of what the law says. Not sure about the second.

Far as I'm concerned it is theft to pirate a game/film or sneak into the cinema, but the profit margins on me doing that are minimal and I'll pay for something I pirated if it's worth it. I couldn't afford cod 4 for a long time, but I bought it when I could.

I don't do it with music any more because of spotify, in fact it's made me buy a few more because I like the cd artwork of quite a few bands.

Post by **Joose** » November 7th, 2009, 19:06

HereComesPete wrote: I don't do it with music any more because of spotify, in fact it's made me buy a few more because I like the cd artwork of quite a few bands.

Which brings me to the other point about piracy: games are a lot less likely to be pirated if its easier not to. I would bet that a lot of games that are not available digitally, through Steam for example, would have been pirated a lot less if they had been. But that's a different discussion.

I think the problem here is really a matter of terminology. Piracy is not "theft" per se, as you are not necessarily taking something from someone. Like I said before, I'm not going to buy this game anyway, so whether I pirate it or not doesn't make the slightest difference to the developer. That being said, if I was pirating the game *instead* of buying it, that would most definitely be wrong. I would still say its not stealing, but only because the term doesn't fit, not because its any better than theft.

Interesting question to those who are so against piracy: Would you be so up in arms if, instead of buying it or pirating it, I simply borrowed it from a mate? If not, why not? What's the difference?

Shada · Post by **Shada** » November 7th, 2009, 19:47

Joose wrote:Would you be so up in arms if, instead of buying it or pirating it, I simply borrowed it from a mate? If not, why not? Whats the difference?

Your mate paid for it and is unlikely to lend the game to more than half a dozen people

Baliame · Post by **Baliame** » November 7th, 2009, 20:44

Why would that be a different thing? ONE person paid for it and he gives it to X people. X can be any number without breaking the definition.

Post by **Joose** » November 7th, 2009, 21:32

Shada wrote:Your mate paid for it and is unlikely to lend the game to more than half a dozen people

So? If I pirate it, my mate has still bought it. Are you saying that its ok to pirate a game as long as you know someone who bought it? If not, whats the difference?

Post by **Dog Pants** » November 7th, 2009, 22:27

I hate this thread.

buzzmong · Post by **buzzmong** » November 7th, 2009, 22:40

Yes, it's gotten a little un5punky now.

Baliame · Post by **Baliame** » November 7th, 2009, 22:40

This thread escalated has to..

MORAL KOMBAT!

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » November 7th, 2009, 22:43

Piracy isn't theft. If I stole a TV it wouldn't have only a handful of limited poor quality russian channels to watch.

Shada · Post by **Shada** » November 7th, 2009, 22:53

Joose wrote:So? If I pirate it, my mate has still bought it. Are you saying that its ok to pirate a game as long as you know someone who bought it? If not, whats the difference?

I'm just trying to explain the reasoning behind why people don't get up in arms when friends borrow games from friends. That's what you asked.

A guy buys a game and shares it amongst his friends - five people, for example. So six people play it with five people getting a free ride.

A pirate buys a game and puts it on the internet for all to download. Thousands and thousands of people get a free ride with one person paying for it.

Think of those two scenarios as separate worlds - the first one is a world where there are ONLY people sharing with their friends, and a second is a world where there are ONLY pirates putting stuff on the internet for everyone to download. The first world is the most ideal one - with less people getting a free ride. That is why I don't get up in arms when borrowing games from friends.

I think. The easiest response is "Because it doesn't seem wrong like piracy does." but no one accepts floaty responses like that.

Post by **Dog Pants** » November 7th, 2009, 23:17

buzzmong wrote:Yes, it's gotten a little un5punky now.

Not un5punky, just boring. This argument has been done to death and nobody ever changes their opinion on it. Every other thread on the PCG forums devolve into a flamefest about piracy. I stopped going there because of it.

Post by **deject** » November 8th, 2009, 1:43

Dog Pants wrote:
Not un5punky, just boring. This argument has been done to death and nobody ever changes their opinion on it. Every other thread on the PCG forums devolve into a flamefest about piracy. I stopped going there because of it.

Yeah I am not going to continue with this discussion as A) It's been done before, 2) I've made my point, and III) I think we're arguing semantics if you cut through all the obfuscation anyways.

All I'm going to say is I am not a better person in any way than any of you guys, and I would never claim to be.