Invention isn't worth it...

[Fear]

...seriously, it isn't.

Run the figures, they just don't add up.


...


Ok so I got drunk on my sisters birthday and spent some a few hundred mil on invention skills and interfaces and all that jazz, did some looking around made sure I was getting as cheap as I could in empire.

I trained up Caldari Encryptions to Level 4, ran off 20 Capacitor Control Circuit I BPCs, and then set about inventing them.

Out of 3 jobs (costing me roughly 30mil each), 1 succeeded, and 2 didn't. Not bad I thought, rather chuffed with my 10 run BPC for Capacitor Control Circuit II.

I got the RAM sorted, no problem, Tracey gave me some he had kicking about, market value of 38,000 ISK, peanuts. Then I had to find:

7x Capacitor Console
26x Logic Circuit
22x Power Circuit

If simply getting the cheapest from the market we're looking at a build cost of 372.6 Mil ISK, if looking at using buy orders to obtain the salvage we're looking at not all that much less, 300 Mil ISK at best. (Buy orders are closely following sell orders)

These cunts are selling for 272 Mil ISK in Jita - how the fuck does that even work? Because even if the same people were building them as were salvaging for the components, then they would make a fuck load more isk simply selling the salvage.

To add injury to insult, I spent possibly 90Mil in direct invention costs (excluding skill costs and interface costs) and got a 10 run T2 BPC, but these cunts are selling on contracts now for 25 mil, with a buyout of 45 mil. How are they inventing these 10 run BPCs so much cheaper than me? I didn't cut any corners! I've worked out that even with a 0.4 success rate in the long run, they still can't possibly be profiting. (Unless they too realise how shit these BPOs are and just want to sell them)

So not only is it cheaper to buy the T2 BPC than it is to invent it, it also is cheaper to buy the finished goods than building it yourself ever could be.


Pretty pissed off with all this I started to look at other T2 rig invention items and they're all the same. It simply isn't cost effective, or infact at all profitable to invent. Not only is it cheaper to buy the T2 BPCs, but it is cheaper to buy the end product.


I know the obvious comment here is that I should mine/salvage/etc all my raw materials - but again that doesn't add up as I'd have to salvage t2 amarr wrecks (when the fuck do I ever get chance to do that) - but even then I might as well simply sell the salvage.

Not only that, but from a time-is-money perspective, simply doing a lvl 4 mission in a raven makes so much more isk. Even if I were to go about trying really hard to make a profitable build out of this T2 BPC I may as well just run a level 4, or narf, a level 3.

Anyone know anything that I'm missing here? Anyone had better luck than me at this?

[Fear]

Maybe the mistake I made here was going into Rig Invention without researching it too well (it would have been profitable before the market dived - maybe I should have predicted that better)

I am going to look at Caldari Module invention next as I can't afford to obtain the ship interface. I won't buy until I find a massively profitable invention, otherwise I can just build bubbles and make so much more isk.

[Hehulk]

So, the fact that I've been vetoing rig invention left, right and centre passed you by?

[Fear]

So, the fact that I've been vetoing rig invention left, right and centre passed you by?

As I am in t1 rig production, t2 invention made sense as I had all the skills and researched BPOs, and when I first looked into it it was actually slightly profitable. And I half did it as Tracey wanted T2 CCCs for his capitals.

Your smart-arse comment doesn't answer how markets are currently defying mathematics.

[Hehulk]

This much is true, so ok, info:

Clearly rig invention sucks, and people are idiots. This is true for alot of production in eve (At one point, I could have been buying T2 components in jita last year, reprocessing them with 5% loss through standings, and still selling advanced materials for a nice margin). Where you want to be looking is at high turnover items. Heavy/cruise launchers, BS rails, BCUs, that sort of thing. Despite the price crash on alot of stuff, there's still profit to be made. Get a supply deal sorted with a T2 components dealer for varing orders a week, see if anyone else around here can help supply you with datacores, and your set.
Might also be worth poking a COSMOS corp and seeing if you can source some decryptors, and some buy orders in rens/jita/amarr/oursalert for best named items would also boost your success rate (Current theory is best named mods add 20% to the sucess rate)

[Fear]

Yeah rails and missiles was my next point of call.

But it needs much more workings out before I'll commit.

This invention was a bit of an AFK project for me anyway as I don't get much eve time anyway these days.


I guess there is a reason you don't get macro-manufacturers, but you do get macro-missioners.


Edit: Incidentally if anyone in the corp wants to make use of my skills they can, free, just supply the goods and I'll put the job on. Production / caldari invention / etc - as my char isn't doing much else really.

[Hehulk]

Having a read though this thread should help you alot. It's where I've got most of my info from (Plus a few guys I know in-game who invent alot)

[friznit]

Nearly everyone I know who makes a profit out of invention does it with a group of people all contributing towards the final product. Saves a lot of time and individual effort and makes it all worth it.

But I've been round this buoy several times and clearly noone gives a fuck, so I'll shut up.

On a separate note, you may have noticed I've stopped making the corp wallet go up recently. Now that everyone who asked for a ship has had one (or told me not to worry about it for now), I've decided to to a little work for myself. Normal corp work will resume when I feel it's all worth it again, which at the moment I kinda don't.

[Dolly Parton]

On a separate note, you may have noticed I've stopped making the corp wallet go up recently.

[Fear]

Nearly everyone I know who makes a profit out of invention does it with a group of people all contributing towards the final product. Saves a lot of time and individual effort and makes it all worth it.

This was exploratory more than anything, not a snubbing of the corp idea. I'd do both, but as I said I don't run any R+D agents, nor have the time to do this, so all I am left with is buying stuff from Jita and coming back the next day to see if it is worked.

Any of the corp can borrow my tools / skills to make personal or corp isk, or I'll inject them into a corp project.

[northwesten]

nope i dont see 5punkorp wallet. Tho my corp wallets going up slowly

[Dolly Parton]

nope i dont see 5punkorp wallet. Tho my corp wallets going up slowly

0% tax here corp works completely off donations

[friznit]

0% tax here corp works completely off donations

If you're talking about 5punkorp, not entirely true. I've been trading, building and running loans at 10% interest since we left C3, which is how we've made over a billion isk whilst sitting in empire. We spent quite alot on ships for people (minerals mostly and in one case a complete Tier 3 bs), but recouped some of that by selling off a little excess POS fuel (we've got about 1 month of fuel left for a large non-sov POS for when we need it again).

It's long term work like this that enables us to get everyone into battleships, buy that small POS we need for mining ops, or help individual projects for corp mates who can't afford the startup capital, such as Fab's trading in Jita. It's all there in the corp wallet history, for those of you who can see it, or in regular updates on the link in this forum for those of you who can't.

However, my production alt has recently ramped up to 8 full time slots building for ISSO, 2 slots keeping ISSHI ticking over (another 2 bill made since leaving C3), and I get the use of 1 slot every 6 days for myself.

Therefore I've had to divert any trading I was doing for 5punkorp's benefit back into my own until such time as we get a reliable mining/ratting income source.

However, as I mentioned, I somehow feel that I'm wasting my time since despite setting up the corp to help people out as much as possible, offering freighter services, production and market knowledge, everyone insists on going it alone, which ultimately is significantly less profitable than organising these projects as a team.

Anyway, my head's getting sore from banging it against this brick wall. And I said I'd shut up. Sorry.

[Dolly Parton]

If you're talking about 5punkorp, not entirely true.

nope pete and i got this unofficial who's alt corp is better thing going. your going down pete.

Therefore I've had to divert any trading I was doing for 5punkorp's benefit back into my own until such time as we get a reliable mining/ratting income source.

with all these new traders coming around they should be able to help out with corp trading stuff if they want too and this would in turn help you and the corp out

However, as I mentioned, I somehow feel that I'm wasting my time since despite setting up the corp to help people out as much as possible, offering freighter services, production and market knowledge, everyone insists on going it alone, which ultimately is significantly less profitable than organising these projects as a team.

hope your talking about ISS logistics stuff cause 5punkers suppose to work together

Anyway, my head's getting sore from banging it against this brick wall. And I said I'd shut up. Sorry.

i think you should try a rubber padded wall instead of brick. you still get the thud with out the sharp pain on contact and run a much lower chance of catching HIV from the person before you banging their head on the wall

[friznit]

You've missed my point Dolly.

1. Alt corps trading for themselves != trading for 5punkorp. Why exactly do we have all these alt corps? It's becuase people are working alone, not part of a team. 5punkience makes sense for standings issues. Pete's I can justify, since he trades with people who are hostile to us in 0.0 The rest are just a waste of resources.

2. I'm not talking ISS logistics, I'm talking ours. Until now, not one person has asked me to freighter stuff around for them, and insist on doing it the hard way. I completely and utterly fail to understand why.

3. 5punkers are supposed to work together. Right. Sadly we don't.

I'm not telling everyone you have to work as a team but I'm suggesting it very strongly, because we can all get much richer by doing it. Have a chat with anyone from Lyrus about how they run business if you want to hear it from someone else.

[Dolly Parton]

got ya, final studying got my head spinning and not 100% of the normal not so right head.

yeah i understand your point my alt corp is mainly cause of my expensive ass mods i use that WT would ♥ to blow up. I know we're not at war but 2bil isk raven is a game stopper loss right there.

i agree we should work together more as a team and will chat on vent when i get more time.

[northwesten]

Shit at one point I was thinking i not working as a team tho i read again and bit more i am ok I am also using my Alt corp hoping i can make people money from i own efforts

I always seen my self as a Spport kinda person.

Atm I spent 210mil on 0.0 trade and so far i got about 97mil back. There still loads on market but I hope i get another 100 mil in the next two weeks.

Oh and i am also Mining like feck to build ship and then sell mins or ship for corp! I used 10mil on some Zyd and mega mins and rest i mined for maxium profit.

I thinking of investing in a Throraxs and stabber BPO but mean while i just hold once i settled in this job . Also I looking at crows to make as North getting in to T2 skills but thats way down the line. I just think Other income for share holder would be good i think.

Next shipment i need a carrier but when that be i not sure because of RL work I put it in Cans not hauler for the carrier. I No longer using hauler down any pipe as its getting hot in prov.

Oh and i mite sell another 50 shares soon but that news will come later

[Dolly Parton]

me not u

I used 10mil on some Zyd and mega mins and rest i mined for maxium profit.

any production if mins can't be acquired through corp b4 putting a buy order up check with us mission runners, i am sitting on tons of alloys i just sit on the alloys and mins to build ammo i need so i got xtra

Oh and i mite sell another 50 shares soon but that news will come later

nice try you will not sucker me in with your tales.

[friznit]

Before buying any cruiser BPOs, check with me to see what 5punkorp's got. Our BPO's are underused and I'd much rather lend them to you to make a profit out of...this is the kind of thing I'm talking about: use Dolly's excess mins, use the corp's BPO's, abuse all our building toons like Fear, Silver and Fab and you can make a great deal of isk which ultimately will benefit all those who bought shares...a really good arrangement. All you're basically doing is coordinating the moving parts.

[Dolly Parton]

Before buying any cruiser BPOs, check with me to see what 5punkorp's got. Our BPO's are underused and I'd much rather lend them to you to make a profit out of...this is the kind of thing I'm talking about: use Dolly's excess mins, use the corp's BPO's, abuse all our building toons like Fear, Silver, Fab and KennyRogers and you can make a great deal of isk which ultimately will benefit all those who bought shares...a really good arrangement. All you're basically doing is coordinating the moving parts.

fix'd

wait i didn't get any shares cause there was no more damn it