Ey'up.
Some people from the Ctrl-Alt-Del boards (including me) have set up the GAAC - Gamers Alliance Against Censorship.
Why?
This dude and his his shite.
As we're getting people to join, I thought I should spam here.
/spam
Anyway, the link is http://www.gamersalliance.org
GAAC
Moderator: Forum Moderators
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Joose
- Turret
- Posts: 8090
- Joined: October 13th, 2004, 14:13
- Location: The house of Un-Earthly horrors
wow, this guy is seriously messed up.
No, really. When i first read this I was thinking "yeah, but they do have legally applied age restrictions on films, and im not sure if i had a young kid i would want them playing manhunt, so maybe he kinda has a point"
Then I started reading. He instantly lost me when I read the whole "Doom trained the columbine killers" thing. Ive heard the argument before, and it really pisses me off. Since when have rifles been operated via a keyboard? Plus, hadnt the version of doom they were playing got no way of looking up and down? for fucks sake, all the people involved had access to real guns, surely that gave them more realistic "training".
Not being someone adverse to bashing out a few lines to people, i thought i would send him an email on the subject, mainly to see what his response would be like :twisted:. It was quite a well balenced argument, stating my "middle of the road" views, before taking him up on a few suspect "facts" he has been quoted as saying. His reply:
"i couldn't care less"
The fucker didnt even have a Standard Response letter (which is kinda what i was expecting, really). He actually personally responds to all his emails with one line balls like that. The man is an arse.
Then I learnt that (apparently) he has on multiple occasions been required to have psych evaluations to determine whether he was a nutter. Which made me giggle.
No, really. When i first read this I was thinking "yeah, but they do have legally applied age restrictions on films, and im not sure if i had a young kid i would want them playing manhunt, so maybe he kinda has a point"
Then I started reading. He instantly lost me when I read the whole "Doom trained the columbine killers" thing. Ive heard the argument before, and it really pisses me off. Since when have rifles been operated via a keyboard? Plus, hadnt the version of doom they were playing got no way of looking up and down? for fucks sake, all the people involved had access to real guns, surely that gave them more realistic "training".
Not being someone adverse to bashing out a few lines to people, i thought i would send him an email on the subject, mainly to see what his response would be like :twisted:. It was quite a well balenced argument, stating my "middle of the road" views, before taking him up on a few suspect "facts" he has been quoted as saying. His reply:
"i couldn't care less"
The fucker didnt even have a Standard Response letter (which is kinda what i was expecting, really). He actually personally responds to all his emails with one line balls like that. The man is an arse.
Then I learnt that (apparently) he has on multiple occasions been required to have psych evaluations to determine whether he was a nutter. Which made me giggle.
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Dr. kitteny berk
- Morbo
- Posts: 19676
- Joined: December 10th, 2004, 21:53
- Contact:
i don't know, in general censorship to some level is needed, else people *will* end up fucked up.
but also it's not needed in computer games yet,
admittedly there's a few games like manhunt and postal 2 which you could make strong arguments against, but they're not really realistic enough to actually fuck someone up.
then, there's games like counterstrike, call of duty, joint ops, american propaganda, MOH:AA, all of which are reasonably realistic, some of which do attempt to train you in basic military skills and how to shoot, but also, they teach you to respect guns and while semi-realistic, they don't really do enough to fuck you up*
imo, the more dangerous games are ones like need for speed underground, no-one should *EVER* let chavs think they're cool, and that getting tunnelvision doesn't mean you're going over 100.
/pointless just got up mumblings
*i've played cs since i was 15 or so, while it's made me very good at cs and understand tactics, it's not made me a nutjob - my life did that.
but also it's not needed in computer games yet,
admittedly there's a few games like manhunt and postal 2 which you could make strong arguments against, but they're not really realistic enough to actually fuck someone up.
then, there's games like counterstrike, call of duty, joint ops, american propaganda, MOH:AA, all of which are reasonably realistic, some of which do attempt to train you in basic military skills and how to shoot, but also, they teach you to respect guns and while semi-realistic, they don't really do enough to fuck you up*
imo, the more dangerous games are ones like need for speed underground, no-one should *EVER* let chavs think they're cool, and that getting tunnelvision doesn't mean you're going over 100.
/pointless just got up mumblings
*i've played cs since i was 15 or so, while it's made me very good at cs and understand tactics, it's not made me a nutjob - my life did that.
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Joose
- Turret
- Posts: 8090
- Joined: October 13th, 2004, 14:13
- Location: The house of Un-Earthly horrors
this (these, in fact).
Personally, I think Americas gun crime problem has more to do with the general American social attitude (shoot first as questions later) than violent games, or, for that matter, it being legal to own guns. Youve only got to look at canada (who own a great many guns, and play just as many violent games and watch just as many violent films as the rest of us) to see the problem is elsewhere.
But saying that, I think the games industry should be under the same rules as the film industry. Adult themed games should only be sold to Adults.
as a side note: after looking at last nights email efforts, i come to one conclusion: Political arguments and alcohol do not mix, kids!
Personally, I think Americas gun crime problem has more to do with the general American social attitude (shoot first as questions later) than violent games, or, for that matter, it being legal to own guns. Youve only got to look at canada (who own a great many guns, and play just as many violent games and watch just as many violent films as the rest of us) to see the problem is elsewhere.
But saying that, I think the games industry should be under the same rules as the film industry. Adult themed games should only be sold to Adults.
as a side note: after looking at last nights email efforts, i come to one conclusion: Political arguments and alcohol do not mix, kids!
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Woo Elephant Yeah
- Heavy
- Posts: 5433
- Joined: October 10th, 2004, 17:36
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Contact:
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TezzRexx
- Dr Zoidberg
- Posts: 4072
- Joined: February 8th, 2005, 15:54
- Location: BURMINGHUM, England
- Contact:
To be fair, there is -NO- game that can completely train you for combat and blaming the original Doom?! what were they thinking...
I've played first person shooters for years, I then went paintballing for the first time a few months ago (I know this still doesn't come close to real combat, but still, closer then games) and believe you and me, the stragtegic methods are completely different and you can't be prepared for the way your mind starts to think in that situation e.g. you won't ever run out with guns blazing if you don't think you'll survive.
and what is tunnel vision, anywho
I've played first person shooters for years, I then went paintballing for the first time a few months ago (I know this still doesn't come close to real combat, but still, closer then games) and believe you and me, the stragtegic methods are completely different and you can't be prepared for the way your mind starts to think in that situation e.g. you won't ever run out with guns blazing if you don't think you'll survive.
and what is tunnel vision, anywho
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Roman Totale
- Robotic Bumlord
- Posts: 8475
- Joined: October 24th, 2004, 0:27
- Location: Manchester, UK
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Woo Elephant Yeah
- Heavy
- Posts: 5433
- Joined: October 10th, 2004, 17:36
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Contact:
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SquinteyeMckneecap
- Ferret
- Posts: 77
- Joined: March 17th, 2005, 14:48
- Location: With the rest of the brummies....
I don't agree with games f*cking you up, kids going on Steak and Cheese and watching some guy gargling his own blood whilst getting his head ragged off might de-sensitise them a little more to the gore of murder, and theres no way to censor the internet. (Apart from parental lock stuff, but any kid whos grown up with pc's is going to know more than their parents generally and will work out how to get round this).
Ban something, everyone wants to see it, its always been the way. They banned drugs, and more and more people are taking them than ever before. Censoring stuff makes it the forbidden fruit.
If somebody is f*cked up, they're gonna do something f*cked up no matter what they watch, listen to or play. Those things are a reflection of what they like already.
Thats enough serious talk from me today...........
Squinty
Ban something, everyone wants to see it, its always been the way. They banned drugs, and more and more people are taking them than ever before. Censoring stuff makes it the forbidden fruit.
If somebody is f*cked up, they're gonna do something f*cked up no matter what they watch, listen to or play. Those things are a reflection of what they like already.
Thats enough serious talk from me today...........
Squinty
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Woo Elephant Yeah
- Heavy
- Posts: 5433
- Joined: October 10th, 2004, 17:36
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Contact:
An email I sent to mavav a couple of days ago, no response
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/ ... dex.html?x
"
I personally would just like to say that while I applaud the effort
you've all put in to look after your childrens welfare, I don't
believe computer games have any negative impact on a childs behaviour.
I think part of the problem is that most games are played by young
children, specifically males. Now if you sat one of these boys down
and gave him everything he needed to learn knitting the chances are
the first thing he'd do is start stabbing things with the needle and
then probably make nooses out of the wool.
I am more than happy to agree that children are influenced by them
(often positively but not always) however this influence is just as
bad as TV, music etc. For instance in England a fair few years ago a
couple of young boys brutally murdered a 5 year old. They were...
'inspired' by a series of horror movies called 'Chucky'. If they
hadn't seen those films they would have still killed the child, they
would have just done it in a different fashion. All entertainment
gives us new ideas but the impulses to carry these ideas out come from
ourselves, from 'human nature' and yes, from our upbringing too.
I have played computer games for the past 15 years now and will
continue to do so for a long time to come. They have been my main
source of entertainment and one of my major hobbies yet I have never
committed a crime, I'm not at all aggressive and could count on one
hand that times when I've lost my temper. I go online everyday, I have
been part of a 'clan' for a couple of years until recently and I have
met plenty of friends though it, it's probably the most social hobby I
have actually.
While gaming can be addictive it depends on the persons personality.
Those who 'obsess' about games tend to have addictive personalities
and if it weren't for games then they would be addicted to something
else instead. Gaming, just like everything else, must be done in
moderation but that is the parents job. To give their child the
ability to prioritise, to understand that a game isn't reality and
that there is a whole world away from their games. Just as you would
for movies, music, sports, anything that can be used as an 'escape'.
Please just read the article, it's a well thought out, intelligent and
unbiased viewpoint, far better than anything I could write.
If you use this Email for anything I would appreciate it if you ask my
permission first and nothing should be taken and used out of context.
Thank you for your time.
S.West"
Censorship should be censored:)
"
I personally would just like to say that while I applaud the effort
you've all put in to look after your childrens welfare, I don't
believe computer games have any negative impact on a childs behaviour.
I think part of the problem is that most games are played by young
children, specifically males. Now if you sat one of these boys down
and gave him everything he needed to learn knitting the chances are
the first thing he'd do is start stabbing things with the needle and
then probably make nooses out of the wool.
I am more than happy to agree that children are influenced by them
(often positively but not always) however this influence is just as
bad as TV, music etc. For instance in England a fair few years ago a
couple of young boys brutally murdered a 5 year old. They were...
'inspired' by a series of horror movies called 'Chucky'. If they
hadn't seen those films they would have still killed the child, they
would have just done it in a different fashion. All entertainment
gives us new ideas but the impulses to carry these ideas out come from
ourselves, from 'human nature' and yes, from our upbringing too.
I have played computer games for the past 15 years now and will
continue to do so for a long time to come. They have been my main
source of entertainment and one of my major hobbies yet I have never
committed a crime, I'm not at all aggressive and could count on one
hand that times when I've lost my temper. I go online everyday, I have
been part of a 'clan' for a couple of years until recently and I have
met plenty of friends though it, it's probably the most social hobby I
have actually.
While gaming can be addictive it depends on the persons personality.
Those who 'obsess' about games tend to have addictive personalities
and if it weren't for games then they would be addicted to something
else instead. Gaming, just like everything else, must be done in
moderation but that is the parents job. To give their child the
ability to prioritise, to understand that a game isn't reality and
that there is a whole world away from their games. Just as you would
for movies, music, sports, anything that can be used as an 'escape'.
Please just read the article, it's a well thought out, intelligent and
unbiased viewpoint, far better than anything I could write.
If you use this Email for anything I would appreciate it if you ask my
permission first and nothing should be taken and used out of context.
Thank you for your time.
S.West"
Censorship should be censored:)
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Joose
- Turret
- Posts: 8090
- Joined: October 13th, 2004, 14:13
- Location: The house of Un-Earthly horrors
This is *exactly* what im saying (albeit a bit more clearly said).
Ive been trading emails with the guy (hencforth know as "the Tit"). The fact that this big lawyer type was replying with stuff you'd expect from a primary school kid amused me greatly :D
In the second from last one he pretty much admitted (without actually saying it, of course) that he doesnt give a flying fuck about the cause, or the arguments. Hes just in it to sue the sexy undergarments off rockstar games. Strangely, he wasnt amused when I tried to get him to admit that he was just in it for the money, and hasnt emailed me since
Anyway, his pubic "games are bad, mkay" stance is just PR, so no amount of sensible arguments are going to sway him. Hes going for the support of slightly panicky mothers, who im sure we all realise will recognise his emotive bullshit and listen to a logical debate on the subject
Ive been trading emails with the guy (hencforth know as "the Tit"). The fact that this big lawyer type was replying with stuff you'd expect from a primary school kid amused me greatly :D
In the second from last one he pretty much admitted (without actually saying it, of course) that he doesnt give a flying fuck about the cause, or the arguments. Hes just in it to sue the sexy undergarments off rockstar games. Strangely, he wasnt amused when I tried to get him to admit that he was just in it for the money, and hasnt emailed me since
Anyway, his pubic "games are bad, mkay" stance is just PR, so no amount of sensible arguments are going to sway him. Hes going for the support of slightly panicky mothers, who im sure we all realise will recognise his emotive bullshit and listen to a logical debate on the subject
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SquinteyeMckneecap
- Ferret
- Posts: 77
- Joined: March 17th, 2005, 14:48
- Location: With the rest of the brummies....
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Woo Elephant Yeah
- Heavy
- Posts: 5433
- Joined: October 10th, 2004, 17:36
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Contact:
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SquinteyeMckneecap
- Ferret
- Posts: 77
- Joined: March 17th, 2005, 14:48
- Location: With the rest of the brummies....
A lot of people have been getting stuff like that.Joose wrote:Ive been trading emails with the guy (hencforth know as "the Tit"). The fact that this big lawyer type was replying with stuff you'd expect from a primary school kid amused me greatly :D
By the way, could you submit the transcript of:
on the GAAC forums?Joose wrote:In the second from last one he pretty much admitted (without actually saying it, of course) that he doesnt give a flying fuck about the cause, or the arguments. Hes just in it to sue the sexy undergarments off rockstar games. Strangely, he wasnt amused when I tried to get him to admit that he was just in it for the money, and hasnt emailed me since