Is Geminate shit or is it just me?

[friznit]

Yeah, and I know I'm management and supposed to be all positive, but holy moly this place is the arsehole of the universe. I've lost nearly 300mill in ships for zero kills since getting here, the last one when I sacrificed a T2 fitted rook to save a couple of ratters who were acting like noobs - they still got ganked because they weren't aligned, weren't watching local and didn't heed the warning. People are yabbering about putting up a credible defence and yet when I pulled together a gang last night I got no more than 5 people, 2 of whom were Count and me!

Ratting is already hopelessly overcrowded, mining is a non-starter with these constant hostiles about and nearly all the decent PvPers have already left the alliance. Looking around last night, there's very few people left now who I actually know and trust. We sure as hell not getting the period of peace and quiet that we need to rebuild and I have a nasty feeling it's going to get worse rather than better - Privateers have said they're going to come and lock down Oijanen which will basically cut us off from empire altogether.

narf guys, I'm getting threaders with ISS right about now. Don't know how you feel, but more and more I'm dreaming of sitting in Maspah mining ice and quietly building ravens and drakes. High ends are so darn cheap that it's almost more profitable to mine veld than crokite anyway. 5punkfleet could easily go lock down a low end system somewhere, put up a manufacturing POS and enslave the local mining corps to work for us, then go camp Doril

[fabyak]

I've not had a chance to venture out yet so I can't comment this time but I remember there being a big ass problem with hostiles and getting locked down for hours at a time the last time I was up here

narf I wouldn't mind either way and it would be nice to be able to rebuild and regroup in Empire a bit and have some fun with missions and/or DS and/or exploration

[bomberesque]

I hate to sound defeatest, but I agree with Friz. The only guy i new in my gang last night was Jaguar Warrior, from his time dicking around ZXIC ... he was in IAC at the time!

I've already decided that my policy of T2 fitted cruisers has to change and I'm gonna work on some more "isk neutral" fits for PvP until I can go out without losing 10M in 1/2 an hour, but I have earned precicely 0 ISK since arriving in Germinate and lost 1 Domi, 1 Enyo and 1 Thorax, totalling around 100-120M in total losses. Of course these were all my "fault" (of course it is when you fight / fire on a can in emp / fail to heed the intel channel) but still, it's eating my reserve of mods etc.

I'm willing to stick with it, but need to find at least some income stream. If I can do that then I like where we are; easy fro Priv to camp = easy to find WT. But no income stream and I'll be back in Khank by the end of the month

[Hehulk]

I think I can agree too. As a region, Geminate isn't half bad, but when you shove 700 people into one constellation it becomes unmanagable. I can also understand (to a point) people not defending. POS wars burn people out and fighting outnumbered again and again while slowly losing ground is dangerously demoralizing. At the sime time though, not defending geminate now just makes ISS look weak and invites the gankers to come play more.

Sum that up, nice region, too overcrowded.

[Akiakaiu]

Well we know Aki = lover not fighter, so the idea of doing nothing but fighting off WTs does not sound thrilling to me. I can see us NAPing the little guys in the region and getting on the bad side of the bigger ones who knowing that it's easy to take stations away from ISS will just come over and we'll be trying to hold 2 more stations with another POS war. Doesn't one system have something like 50 moons?

narf, I don't feel I have any say in this matter though, as RL has kept me away from some of the bigger fights. Car being reproed and house almost going into foreclosure right as the big IAC war kicked off. Other matters keeping me afk most of the time while C3 was going on. And when I had time to get to C3 I was either camped in the station or the pipe from KW - C3 was a death run. I felt, and still feel kinda worthless to 5punk. All I can do is haul. :/

[fabyak]

[chop] Don't know how you feel, but more and more I'm dreaming of sitting in Maspah mining ice and quietly building ravens and drakes

Would it be worth hanging onto the office in Khank then as from the responses, it looks like we could be back down there in the none-too distant and we don't want to end up without an office...

[amblin]

.

[fabyak]

Can we please have a whip-round for Aki so we can buy him a 90-day gtc? They can't be that expensive in isk. Hulk? Prices?

Aki - even your hauler is valued.

I can't comment on Gem not having got there yet, but this thread has a certain theme to it... Maybe I won't jump my carrier up there just now.

I think they're about 300m? And this^ We lub you Aki! And we always need and appreciate haulers

[Hehulk]

Maybe I won't jump my carrier up there just now.

Oh, please do. I know I'm not on every night (Tonight I will be as silver), but a carrier or two on the fields would really make a huge difference. If we arse about now, and put up meagre defences, it'll destroy the image of ISS I think count is try to make - We're not useless anymore and we can hold our own.

[friznit]

If it's only a 90 day GTC you need Aki, consider it done. Hell, I'll even buy it and 'sell' it to the corp at a normal price, rather than the stupidly overpriced 380mill they're going for these days If it's time that stopping you playing then there's not a great deal we can do though

Don't feel worthless, we like having you around!

[traveyb]

Oh, please do. I know I'm not on every night (Tonight I will be as silver), but a carrier or two on the fields would really make a huge difference. If we arse about now, and put up meagre defences, it'll destroy the image of ISS I think count is try to make - We're not useless anymore and we can hold our own.

If we can get a cyno in hoth I will happily jump up tonight (granted I need to know a freindly POS in BWF)

[friznit]

Oh, please do. I know I'm not on every night (Tonight I will be as silver), but a carrier or two on the fields would really make a huge difference. If we arse about now, and put up meagre defences, it'll destroy the image of ISS I think count is try to make - We're not useless anymore and we can hold our own.

Y'know, I'm really not sure I agree with that last statement. The last two night's have been...disappointing. I thought that the poor turn out in C3 was because of the constant war, but it seems it goes deeper than that. I hope I'm wrong.

Edit: office in khank has been closed. I'd like to close Hoth too before we have to pay for it again (40mill is a bit ouch), so I'll be concentrating on clearing the contents out tonight. IF we leave BWF, there's no reason to go all the way back to Khank. There's the whole of Eve to explore - and we still have an office in Fru

[Wiggy]

Can we please have a whip-round for Aki so we can buy him a 90-day gtc?

I'd be happy to put some isk in, Aki 4tw

[fabyak]

^this, I will gladly chip in too

[amblin]

.

[centerededgedesign]

I'm not sure that Geminate is shit, but I'ts not as easy to work in as Khank was, that's for sure! WT's just didn't find us there, and the fact that we have so many hostiles about down there is disheartening for getting a foothold. On the good side, we don't have a large stationary target in space though, so at least we're not embroiled in the POS war yet.

Options, as I (with my limited exposure the war machine of ISS) see them:

1) Get into the thick of it and be the enforcing arm of ISS, FC'ing ops, whipping the horses to defend our assets/systems.

2) Get set up to do some manufacturing by getting large groups of ISS miners/pvp'ers together to lock down systems for uber mining, so we can rally the troops some and make people some money, that'll help morale, and might plug the holes in the plasma leaking ship that is ISS.

3) Try to convince Count of a diversionary tactic where ISS 'folds' for awhile to pull us out of the crosshairs of the angry peeps that keep following us! Get the member corps to move into alt corps to get our areas set up while keeping the enemy destabilized as to who they are fighting.

4) Maybe convince ISS that outposts aren't the way to go. POS's are cheaper, and if we're really an Alliance we could be more fluid and mobile if we dealt strictly with POS's. These are good tactics in a war, if the enemy doesn't know your location and strengths, they can't mass attacks against them. And how is Privateers at POS attacking? Have they got Dread/Carrier support? Will bumping their noses into deathstars deter them more than letting them camp gates/stations?

5) Tell ISS we need to incur a period of "Restructuring" to lick our wounds, recoup our losses, and get 5punky for awhile. Give ourselves a month outside ISS to re-evaluate our strategy, see if we want to go it alone in Empire as miner/market masters for awhile. 0.0 is great, don't get me wrong there. Mining Ark was awesome, not getting to chose when you pew-pew and do other actions because you're in a war and gate camping is needed no matter how fun it is not was not awesome. Personally, I would prefer taking Friz's headaches (i.e. being in charge of the POS Chain when support was not ideal) to the constantly precarious situation that ISS finds itself in now. I know the POS materials market still sucks, because anyone that can afford T2 production can afford to make their own materials, i.e. not much market for it.

6) I don't know, I just wash the windows. Geminate has ALOT of stations/agents/high sec belts that look undermined/cosmos agents/DS plexes. There are opportunities here, in Empire even. Maybe it's worth ISS breaking into corps and getting a foothold in the area first, so the war machine has some stuff to chew up and spit at the hostiles.

7) Who knows, Dres just spits out ideas in the hopes of coming along a good one. Lord knows I think of enough ideas! (I just need you guys to sift through the slog to find the shiny ones)

Fw4ppers has moved though, and I kinda want the new guys to have a shot at what the area offers. The idea of putting a POS up with the hostiles about is shite though, a) haven't found a prime location for it, b) too much chance of getting gate ganked with as many people as there are around. That one jump into low sec is all it takes to lose alot of stuff!

If we do decide to move again, let's scout hard first to find a decent high sec area to set up in, (where we can build a rep away from our current enemies). And work up some inside deals with the local power to get our own NAP's to get into 0.0 areas. imho, Alliances just make for more hostiles and not getting to choose when you pew-pew. If we could go on our own pace, i.e. get strong before we decide to fight, we might be able to harrass the enemies in other areas by JC'ing in, hitting them, and JC'ing out. If we do that from 3 remote areas, our enemies will wear out trying to move to us to hit us.


Dres goes to werk, see you all later!

[FatherJack]

I rode up in a shuttle last night, but didn't really like what I saw. Guristas in the belts - harder to kill, but same money, a humongous red blob over Jita and idiots in local. Didn't really see much potential for trading, while stuff is relatively cheap, it's a long way to take it, or any rat drops to get good money for it.

[Hehulk]

1) Get into the thick of it and be the enforcing arm of ISS, FC'ing ops, whipping the horses to defend our assets/systems.

Wonderful. Now lets convince the rest of ISS to fight for our space.

2) Get set up to do some manufacturing by getting large groups of ISS miners/pvp'ers together to lock down systems for uber mining, so we can rally the troops some and make people some money, that'll help morale, and might plug the holes in the plasma leaking ship that is ISS.

See previous issue with attendance

3) Try to convince Count of a diversionary tactic where ISS 'folds' for awhile to pull us out of the crosshairs of the angry peeps that keep following us! Get the member corps to move into alt corps to get our areas set up while keeping the enemy destabilized as to who they are fighting.

Can't see why people would want to come back. To a large extent, ISS has no community spirit. Sure you've got core corps such as 5punk, Prax, WHT and jazzara, but I really don't know any of the rest and I've no idea why they'd come back to fight when they don't now.

4) Maybe convince ISS that outposts aren't the way to go. POS's are cheaper, and if we're really an Alliance we could be more fluid and mobile if we dealt strictly with POS's. These are good tactics in a war, if the enemy doesn't know your location and strengths, they can't mass attacks against them. And how is Privateers at POS attacking? Have they got Dread/Carrier support? Will bumping their noses into deathstars deter them more than letting them camp gates/stations?

Trust me, basing out of POS only isn't fun. No clones, no insurance, pain in the ass re-fitting ships, limited hanger space.

5) Tell ISS we need to incur a period of "Restructuring" to lick our wounds, recoup our losses, and get 5punky for awhile. Give ourselves a month outside ISS to re-evaluate our strategy, see if we want to go it alone in Empire as miner/market masters for awhile. 0.0 is great, don't get me wrong there. Mining Ark was awesome, not getting to chose when you pew-pew and do other actions because you're in a war and gate camping is needed no matter how fun it is not was not awesome. Personally, I would prefer taking Friz's headaches (i.e. being in charge of the POS Chain when support was not ideal) to the constantly precarious situation that ISS finds itself in now. I know the POS materials market still sucks, because anyone that can afford T2 production can afford to make their own materials, i.e. not much market for it.

Not sure there narf

6) I don't know, I just wash the windows. Geminate has ALOT of stations/agents/high sec belts that look undermined/cosmos agents/DS plexes. There are opportunities here, in Empire even. Maybe it's worth ISS breaking into corps and getting a foothold in the area first, so the war machine has some stuff to chew up and spit at the hostiles.

Key problem there being all the agents are elsewhere, and I'm not keen to sit in a static position in 0.0 for long periods of time. Not with how viable probing is now.

7) Who knows, Dres just spits out ideas in the hopes of coming along a good one. Lord knows I think of enough ideas! (I just need you guys to sift through the slog to find the shiny ones)

Fw4ppers has moved though, and I kinda want the new guys to have a shot at what the area offers. The idea of putting a POS up with the hostiles about is shite though, a) haven't found a prime location for it, b) too much chance of getting gate ganked with as many people as there are around. That one jump into low sec is all it takes to lose alot of stuff!

If we do decide to move again, let's scout hard first to find a decent high sec area to set up in, (where we can build a rep away from our current enemies). And work up some inside deals with the local power to get our own NAP's to get into 0.0 areas. imho, Alliances just make for more hostiles and not getting to choose when you pew-pew. If we could go on our own pace, i.e. get strong before we decide to fight, we might be able to harrass the enemies in other areas by JC'ing in, hitting them, and JC'ing out. If we do that from 3 remote areas, our enemies will wear out trying to move to us to hit us.


Dres goes to werk, see you all later!

Scouting hard, yes, that, but we already NAPd the locals who'll NAP us, so no more joy there I don't think.

[Hehulk]

Guristas in the belts - harder to kill, but same money

In my experience, guristas are on of the easier NPCs to farm. Only difficult part is the elite versions tend to jam you alot, but I've been killing it all alot easier in silvers raven (until it's untimely demise) than I ever did with angels.

[fabyak]

1) Get into the thick of it and be the enforcing arm of ISS, FC'ing ops, whipping the horses to defend our assets/systems.

Sadly I think that is where the problem lies. It appears most of the people want to make isk and can't be arsed with standing up and defending their isk making territory, just like in KW and in C3

[edit] also you forgot one last point:

9. Profit!