Starwars: Best or worst films of all time.

Post by **deject** » October 29th, 2006, 1:03

in my opinion, the originals, Episodes IV - VI, were pretty good. the prequels were utter shit except for Episode III, which was watchable. The others just suckled on giant donkey balls.

Post by **Grimmie** » October 29th, 2006, 1:22

^ What he said.

Post by **Roman Totale** » October 29th, 2006, 1:31

I didn't like episodes 1,2 or 3 (although Palpatine was rather fun in them) - thought they were a bit rubbish t be honest.

Saw this video on YouTube today which made me laugh - highlights a couple of the glaring continuity errors from the films.

Post by **FatherJack** » October 29th, 2006, 2:21

I don't know if the point is being missed a little, but for the most part I agree - they don't stand up that well as sci-fi, but they are a ripping good yarn about a good vs. evil struggle set (largely) in space. Oh, and they were aimed mainly at kids.

My experience of them is this:

Star Wars
Went to the pictures to see it with my Dad. I was six, and it was around my sister's birthday, so I was taken out of the equation to stop me being a little shit at my sister's party. Because my Mum wasn't there we got to have popcorn too.
Apart from Doctor Who, and the Star Trek reruns I'd never seen anything remotely like it. I was utterly stunned. A naturally inquisitive child I went on about it for weeks, demanding my Dad tell me exactly when I'd be able to go into space, and resolving most determinedly that I would live to be at least 130 years old.
We thought that was it at the time.

The Empire Strikes Back
The Star Trek movie came and went without much notice, this was the big one. We now knew there was at least a trilogy, and were warned that as the "middle story" this one had to not have a happy ending.
It was about the same time of year, me now nine having pretty much the same reaction as to the first one.
This was also when I recall the merch thing starting. Everyone had, or wanted the merchandise. We really didn't see it as exploitative, just: I love Star Wars, ergo I want a Star Wars lunch box, backpack, pajamas, wallpaper, duvet cover and all the action figures, except Yoda who was rare as fuck. R5-D4 was no substitute. (Sorry Nana, RIP - I was an ungrateful little bastard)

The Return of the Jedi
At twelve I was now going to films with mates from school. By now we knew about the "first" film actually being the fourth in the story. Speculation was rife on the school bus as to the first three's content, and Ep 6 as we now knew it was a rip-roaring ride where Luke kicks arse in all the right places, and the goodies win. For good. But Leia was Luke's sister...that was gross. Plot holes were not noticed at the time.

time passes...

Well, that's the problem really. It took nineteen years before we saw Ep 1. We weren't speculating on the school bus anymore, we were managers, headmasters, sargeants or directors.
I would more value the opinion of someone born in 1992, who got to watch them as they came out and additionally had the luxury of not having their Dad moan how the originals were better and being forced to watch them, only to find them "old fashioned" and "not very realistic-looking". Their releases being within a similar six-year time frame seems no coincidence to me, indeed it seems even more calculated as I think about it - I'd have fucking loved Jar-Jar when I was six, and Yoda kicking arse would have been fantastic at nine.

I think most of the elements are in place in Eps 1-3 for kids to find them hugely entertaining - the Anakin/Padmé thing being (actually) less "icky" than the Luke/Leia/Han thing. If you want "grown-up" Star Wars there's the Knights of the Old Republic games, plus loads of others, as well as a veritable library of novels.

While I would have loved it if Eps 1 thru 3 were an the same style of the last few minutes of Ep 3 - ie: Ep 4 style, but done a bit better, it wouldn't have had the general appeal to new viewers. Where they really fell down in my view was that the story got a bit lost amongst all the fancy new computer graphics.

Post by **deject** » October 29th, 2006, 3:16

The best Star Wars movie is by far The Empire Strikes Back.

Post by **Dog Pants** » October 29th, 2006, 10:56

amblin wrote:I actually like Star Trek

Star Wars and Star Trek seem to be mutually exclusive I tend to find. I hate Star trek.

You seem to be concentrating on the things around the films, rather than the films themselves. I find over-hype and merchandising irritating too, but they don't affect how good or bad the film is. Personally I dislike Episodes I - III too - they pandered too much to kids, which the originals didn't (apart from the Ewoks). Nothing particularly outrageous and no stupid characters, just desperate, gritty action. In fact, let me go into list mode...

Episode I:
The plot was actually better than the original Star Wars, ruined by putting too many silly characters into it. Jar-Jar Binks could have been tolerated if it weren't for his outragous luck, but the rest of the Gungans should have been a bit more intimidating - Jar-Jar was supposed to be the village idiot after all. The Battle Droids looked great, but should have been less Keystone Cops. It would have been nice to see the Gungans suffering the terrible casualties they predicted in the early stages of the battle too - they did it in EpIV with the Stormtroopers boarding the Tantive IV, so why not now? I liked the pod race though - Anakin is supposed to be a child prodigy so I can live with him building droids and pod racers and things, although the older they could have feasibly made him the better.
Oh yeah, I don't like why they felt the need to crowbar as many of the characters from the original films in as possible. Why couldn't they have left the droids out? They're completely surplus. Darth Maul was good to watch.

Episode II:
Oh dear. Very Jedi heavy, which I'm not too keen on, but at least they kept rediculous characters out of it for the most part. The best bits are uninspiring to me (I prefer the epic battles), and the bad bits are hideous. Yoda flipping about with a little lightsaber made me cringe (I'm sure he was supposed to be a scholar, not a warrior), and R2-D2 flying made me cry out loud in the cinema when he started flying - if he could fly then why did he never do it before or after? It's a pretty useful trick to be modest about.

Episode III:
The better of the first three films I think. The clones are looking good link up well between the Republic and the Empire. It's dark, like Empire Strikes back, and isn't ruined by stupid characters. There's grit to it with the Jedi getting massacred - including the children, which was a nice touch. I'd have liked to see more of the battle on Kashyyk personally, and they had just enough Chewbacca in it to make it feasible. I quite liked seeing how Anakin turned into Darth Vader, although it seems he went to the dark side because he was a sulky Emo teenager. I'd say if the other two films were made with the same care as this one then the trilogy would have been far better, but as it is the first fwo bring this one down.

Episode IV:
I've always seen this as EpIV-VI in one. I think Lucas thought that he'd only get the one film out so he tried to tell all three films in one story. This makes it a good standalone film, but means that parts are repeated later in the trilogy. I love the style of the old trilogy - dirty and gritty and desperate. The opening scene is amazing (especially in an imax cinema), the butchering of the Rebel troops by the Stormtroopers at the beginning is truely gruesome, as is Darth Vader crushing the Rebel captain's throat. Han Solo is a great character - he's a good man trying to be a bad man in order to survive in an evil man's world. The constant deaths of the Rebels in the beginning and at the end give it a really desperate edge throughout.
The special edition added a few nice touches (like the noble but ultimately cowardly Biggs), but detracted from the film by adding Greedo's shot in the cantina and a completely unneccessary Jabba scene.

Episode V:
Probably the best of the films. The opening scene with the Executor is, again, spectacular. The film is even more desperate than EpIV and the Battle of Hoth is truly awesome. Lando Calrissian is another excellent character, much like Han Solo, and it's good to see the two characters interacting in their own environment. I'm not really a fan of the lightsaber fight, especially as the fight scenes in the first trilogy were so much more dynamic (I guess Darth's gotten old and Luke's just not very good).
Luckily the SE didn't really touch this one.

Episede VI:
Has nice bits of IV and V in it - the beginning with the escape from Jabba is nice, while the Battle of Endor is a brilliant, grand scene. Personally I think the ground battle is made weak by the Ewoks, but the space battle is incredible.
The SE only really seems to change the ending, adding celebrations that probably wouldn't have taken place for years afterwards. It doesn't detract too much from the film though.

shot2bits · Post by **shot2bits** » October 29th, 2006, 12:19

dog pants wrote:Why couldn't they have left the droids out?

they did that because in episode 4 if you remember obi wan said "ah yes i do remember having a droid like this" or something along those lines

personally im a big star wars fan, ive always liked the original films more than episode 1 through 3, and although i think episode 1 and 2 could have been alot better (like not having such a child rolemodel villain character like darth maul, for gods sake people only liked him cos of his double sided light sabre, which is overrated anyhow) but they where kind of essential for clearing up some key points in the plot, which the 3 films where mainly about anakins life to show how he was seduced by the dark side and become darth vader

mrbobbins · Post by **mrbobbins** » October 29th, 2006, 12:42

Dog Pants wrote:Star Wars and Star Trek seem to be mutually exclusive I tend to find. I hate Star trek.

I love both Star Wars and Star Trek, I agree with the general consensus on the original SW films being fantastic and the newer ones being a bit poo but enjoying them none the less.

Post by **Roman Totale** » October 29th, 2006, 12:43

shot2bits wrote: they did that because in episode 4 if you remember obi wan said "ah yes i do remember having a droid like this" or something along those lines

He actually says "I don't seem to remember owning any droids" - I always assumed he developed Alzheimer's.

As for Annakin's turn to the dark side, like someone else pointed out he just comes across as some pouting, sulking emo kid.

Darth Vader wrote: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I laughed out loud in the cinema at that point.

Adoran Wa'alle · Post by **Adoran Wa'alle** » October 29th, 2006, 13:48

I myself am young enough to have seen episode 1 as a kid, and of course, I was stunned. Nagged my mom to death about getting the merchandise etc. A few years later I also got around to watching the old trilogy, and liked it. I didn't feel that they were as good as the new films though, mostly cause it looked "old" and wasn't as technically impressive as the new ones.

I still like the new movies (well, except for NOOOO), but I have a growing feeling that that is only because I wasn't alive when the original movies were made. I probably would've felt differently then.

In any case, I still feel Star Wars is the best Sci-Fi film series out there. I know, I know. sound in space. but who cares? It's a movie

More than the films though, I enjoy the Expanded Universe books, and currently have 43 of them on my bookshelf

Sandwich · Post by **Sandwich** » October 29th, 2006, 13:51

trust people on the internet to like star wars, personally i think they are pretty crap, not worth watching more than once and they are all so overrated its unbelievable.

Post by **deject** » October 29th, 2006, 13:51

Adoran Wa'alle wrote:I myself am young enough to have seen episode 1 as a kid, and of course, I was stunned. Nagged my mom to death about getting the merchandise etc. A few years later I also got around to watching the old trilogy, and liked it. I didn't feel that they were as good as the new films though, mostly cause it looked "old" and wasn't as technically impressive as the new ones.

I still like the new movies (well, except for NOOOO), but I have a growing feeling that that is only because I wasn't alive when the original movies were made. I probably would've felt differently then.

In any case, I still feel Star Wars is the best Sci-Fi film series out there. I know, I know. sound in space. but who cares? It's a movie

More than the films though, I enjoy the Expanded Universe books, and currently have 43 of them on my bookshelf

Just out of curiosity, what is your opinion of Black and White films?

Adoran Wa'alle · Post by **Adoran Wa'alle** » October 29th, 2006, 15:21

deject wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what is your opinion of Black and White films?

Some can be good, although since they feel less realistic, I have a hard(er) time getting excited, sad, happy or similar from stuff happening in the movie

Lateralus · Post by **Lateralus** » October 29th, 2006, 15:33

Sandwich, a person on the internet wrote:trust people on the internet to like star wars

Adoran Wa'alle · Post by **Adoran Wa'alle** » October 29th, 2006, 15:41

[quote="Lateralus"][/quote]

Haha, owned

Sandwich · Post by **Sandwich** » October 29th, 2006, 16:30

i fail to see the irony, i could draw you a venn diagram to show you how the term "people on the internet" does not encompass all people on the internet so as a user of said internet i am neither in nor out of this category, depending on the context of the situation. I am henceforth not owned and will never be.

Thankyou and good night

Adoran Wa'alle · Post by **Adoran Wa'alle** » October 29th, 2006, 16:50

Sandwich wrote:i fail to see the irony, i could draw you a venn diagram to show you how the term "people on the internet" does not encompass all people on the internet so as a user of said internet i am neither in nor out of this category, depending on the context of the situation. I am henceforth not owned and will never be.

Thankyou and good night

Message recieved, you are not owned

spoodie · Post by **spoodie** » October 29th, 2006, 17:28

mrbobbins wrote:I love both Star Wars and Star Trek, I agree with the general consensus on the original SW films being fantastic and the newer ones being a bit poo but enjoying them none the less.

Exactly that

Post by **Dog Pants** » October 29th, 2006, 17:42

Okay, seems I'm wrong about the Star Wars Vs Star Trek thing. Also, hate was probably too strong a word, I just don't have any interest in it.

I'd agree that Episodes I-III were good old japes (I did buy them all on DVD, if only to complete the series), but none of them came close to the originals. The potential was there, but as FJ said I remember the originals (only ROTJ from the original release, I'm not that old) and it has probably jaded my view of the new films.

Worth mentioning also that the Clone Wars animations were rather good.

5punk

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