In Game Advertising

Nickface · Post by **Nickface** » October 19th, 2006, 21:17

Perhaps those of you with BF2142 can shed some light on this, because I'm wary to even try any of that...

It seems more and more games have been heading into the direction of incorporating in game advertising. I know 2142 has the ever changing billboards that everyone is touting as spyware, I also read that they'll be doing the same thing for Need for Speed: Carbon. I've already had to deal with it with Trackmania Nations, which to tell the truth I've hardly ever noticed. But I really not familliar with how it works.

There are two main questions I have to ask about it, really. 1) Does the in game advertising effect your game performance? I know EA, and I know what kind of products they put out, and it seems to me like tacking on something else to one of their "fine products" will only cause it more convolution and problems. 2) Is it really necessary? Some would argue that they need to justify running servers and networks, but with the $60 price people pay for games, does the consumer really need to get kicked in the nuts again?

I was all set to pre-order NFS: Carbon, but then I saw the in-game advertising was part of it. For me, I can't understand it because I'll be playing single player mostly, because I generally suck when compared to other people in racing games. I'd imagine since I'm still connected to the 'net, I'm going to have advertisements blasted at me, which would be 100% for EA if I don't use their networks.

I'm not sure how I feel about all of this, it's the same reason why I don't play WoW, CoH/V or anything along those lines either. I pay one for a product, and I have to pay for it again later? please...

Post by **FatherJack** » October 19th, 2006, 21:45

I'll just post on these quickly, as I'm a bit tired.

Nickface wrote:1) Does the in game advertising effect your game performance?

Even in Trackmania, with the most blatant advertising I've ever seen, I found it possible to mentally "screen out" the ads, as far as "game speed effect" goes, I'd imagine it's trivial.

Nickface wrote:2) Is it really necessary?

No, it's greed.

Sheriff Fatman · Post by **Sheriff Fatman** » October 19th, 2006, 21:59

I was something on this on another forum, I'll give you the interesting bits:

Greetings,
We would like to provide more information on in-game advertising in Battlefield 2142. To try and help everyone better understand it, here is how it works.

The in-game advertisement is respectful of players' privacy: it never accesses files not directly related to the game, and it does not capture personal data such as cookies, account login detail, gameplay behaviour or surfing history. As it is an integrated part of Battlefield 2142 and not a separate program, it only runs when the game is running.

Because BF2142 delivers ads by region, the IP address of the player is used to determine the region of the player and helps serve ads by region and language; for instance, a player in Paris will be presented with ads in French. Note that this IP address is not stored on the advertisement server and is not repurposed for other uses.

A unique ID number is anonymously assigned the first time the player joins a Battlefield 2142 online game. It is stored locally on the PC but is not linked to any personal details.

The in-game advertisement gathers what we call “impression data”, such as location of the billboard in the game or duration of advertisement impression. It helps see how many people have seen an ad – but not who has seen it.

We are also conscious that the advertisement shouldn’t distract the player from the overall gaming experience, so all ads fit in the unique environment of each level in the game. The content of the ads is also controlled to ensure that no offensive content is displayed in Battlefield 2142.

We all hope that this explanation will address recent concerns on the advertisement in Battlefield 2142.

See you on the Battlefield.

-Your Dice Live Team

And an interview with a guy from IGA

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_i ... tory=11300

Whilst I don't like the idea myself, this has dispelled some of my fears. No doubt it will become increasingly popular.

Guybrush · Post by **Guybrush** » October 19th, 2006, 21:59

It's a bad trend narf - the EA whores make enough cash selling 'updates' as it is - now we paying the same for a game that they make money from ads as well ffs!

As for trackmania - and I'm assuming you mean nations here - is kinda ok cos it's a free download. nvidia payed for the game to be made so a few ads are acceptable imho..

Will be interesting to see what ads are use in games - imagine the ads for a new leisure suit larry game

Post by **Joose** » October 19th, 2006, 22:14

To be honest (and you may have realised this from comments ive made before), I dont understand what all the fuss is about. If they were using it to nefariously collect personal data, then I *may* feel differently about it. But they are not.

Personally, I dont give two shits if it makes EA yet more money or not, as long as it doesnt affect me, personally. So lets look at that. The way I see it, there are two ways it could spoil a game for me:

1) could make things look shit, with big banners and billboards all over the shop.
2) could make things run badly, due to shitty coding.

I cant see either of these really happening though. Not to a degree that spoils the game. Taking the Need for Speed games as an example: There are in game advertising billboards in most racing games. Certainly there are some in NFS Underground (albeit not necassarily for real things). And loads of more "serious" racing games feature billboards for real products, its just that they have never auto-updated in previous games. I barely notice they exists. Im willing to bet that there is advertising in games *you* have played, and never noticed. So no, I cant see that that will get any worse than it already is.

As for the coding: I really cant see them making that significant a hit on performance. Shit, *I* could write code to change a graphic every now and then without it being that intensive in any way, and im a rubbish code monkey. Also, the technology is kinda already there. Whenever you load a map in beef, it displays a little banner graphic bottom right, displaying the servers logo image thingy. Not a million miles away from that image being in level, really. Compare it to something like CS's spray can images being transfered between players. Essentially the same thing (in fact, the CS spray things are probably providing a *worse* hit).

Its not really the same as paying a subscription fee, a la MMO's. It doesnt actually cost you anything.

So if it doesnt cost you anything, doesnt invade your privacy, doesnt slow down the game, and (in most cases) doesnt spoil the game, why does everyone care so much?

Stoat · Post by **Stoat** » October 19th, 2006, 22:27

Who gets the ad money from BF2142? Because if it's used for server up-keep and bonuses for the developer then I'm in favour of it, within reason. If the Publisher gets the cash then it's all gone wrong somewhere.

friznit · Post by **friznit** » October 19th, 2006, 22:43

With the online gaming market growing at an astounding rate, and even the US Congress stepping in to take a look, product placement and advertising is the obvious next step. In some cases it may even enhance the 'realism' of games by bringing up-to-date content in line with the real life consumer market. One would hope that the publishers would pass these profits on to the end user by way of lowered subs and cheaper games. However, they won't. They'll reap the profits and pass it on to their shareholders. Either way, realtime advertising is a brilliant marketing ploy and is here to stay.

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » October 19th, 2006, 22:49

Nickface wrote:Does the in game advertising effect your game performance?

Brightly coloured advertisements of mortal products do not affect the gunslinger.

But seriously, for the most part I don't notice ads in games unless they're done in the worst possible "LOOK AT THIS BUY THIS PLEASE LOOK AT THIS" way. A billboard here or there doesn't bother me, I ignore them like I ignore ads in real life.

Nickface · Post by **Nickface** » October 19th, 2006, 23:19

Joose wrote:So if it doesnt cost you anything, doesnt invade your privacy, doesnt slow down the game, and (in most cases) doesnt spoil the game, why does everyone care so much?

This is what I'm getting at. I don't know a damned thing about it, and I want to know more. On one side, there's everyone going "OMFG EA IS HAXORING YOUR INFOS!" and on the other side its "OMFG, STFU IT DOESN'T DO N E THING, N00B!" I suspect the truth lies somewhere between those two points.

I wouldn't expect to have to PAY for advertising or have it contain spoilers or whatnot, I'm mostly concerned with my private information being shared and having an ad update bog down my machine. I suspect it's probably similiar to TMN where I didn't notice a damn thing, but I just want to get a dialogue going.

And with respect specifically to EA, I've been able to experience their shitty menus and their idiotic patchings and play mechanics in several games, and I wouldn't put it past them to screw up a simple image change bit of code.

Nickface · Post by **Nickface** » October 19th, 2006, 23:21

And to question the realism that it brings, it makes perfect sense for a racing or sporting game to have advertisements, but I'd be a little cheesed off if I was floating around in space and there was a big Coca-Cola cap strewn across a meteor.

Woo Elephant Yeah · Post by **Woo Elephant Yeah** » October 19th, 2006, 23:22

I couldn't give a flying fuck to be honest.

The only thing that would annoy me are adverts inbetween loading maps, and is particular starting the game.

I hate waiting for videos to finish, and the Nividia ones are annoying enough, but I can;t see that happening, so frankly I don't really give a shit

Sheriff Fatman · Post by **Sheriff Fatman** » October 19th, 2006, 23:52

Nickface wrote:
This is what I'm getting at. I don't know a damned thing about it, and I want to know more. On one side, there's everyone going "OMFG EA IS HAXORING YOUR INFOS!" and on the other side its "OMFG, STFU IT DOESN'T DO N E THING, N00B!" I suspect the truth lies somewhere between those two points.

According to EA when you join a game you get a ID that doesn't relate to your account, it then logs who looks at a banner from what angle, range and for how long. It seems to be a way (at the moment at least) of finding out what banners are the most high profile, possibly with a view to placing a premium on those banners for advertising prices.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » October 20th, 2006, 10:33

I find it a bit wierd people are actually saying it wont be too bad and they dont care that most games will be covered in adverts within a few years if this is "successful".

Despite the fact that most people ignore adverts EA will consider it successful if enough advertisers pour money into it. If some one is looking in the direction of an advert even though they arent reading it they'll claim its getting noticed.

It'll eventually mean almost every part of everyones lives will be covered in advertising they dont even care about and this is definately something I dont want. If I had my way I'd ban advertising in the middle of TV programs and only allow it at the end, I'd ban ingame advertising, I'd ban billboards and I'd put a limit of one advert every two pages in newspapers and magazines

spoodie · Post by **spoodie** » October 20th, 2006, 11:00

"Lightspeed fits today's active life style, whether you're on the job or having fun. Lightspeed Briefs - style and comfort for the discriminating crotch."

Personally I think some people are getting a little excited over nothing. If you are choosing to buy a product that has something you disapprove of within it you only have yourself to blame. These companies are in the business of making money and they will try to make as much possible while balancing that with the happiness of their consumers. There's no point moaning about a company and then buying their product, it sends the wrong signal. Vote with your money!

Nickface · Post by **Nickface** » October 20th, 2006, 15:49

The topic seems to be a hot one right now, and I'm glad we got some dialouge going on it.

Penny Arcade linked to <a href="http://nationalcheeseemporium.org/">this site</a> talking about how the ingame advertising works for Swat 4.

And to quote Tycho, "I think the idea is something like: if a person you don't know is staring into your window late at night, the fact that they don't your first name is no comfort." Which I think is a good explaination of why people have been getting a hair up their ass over this sort of thing.

I just want to see it tastefully done, be non-intrusive, and not hinder my performance of the game I already paid for.

Post by **Joose** » October 20th, 2006, 16:37

Nickface wrote:And to quote Tycho, "I think the idea is something like: if a person you don't know is staring into your window late at night, the fact that they don't your first name is no comfort." Which I think is a good explaination of why people have been getting a hair up their ass over this sort of thing.

that comparison irritated me a little. If they were poking around in your browser and looking at cookies and stuff, then yes, it would be a bit like that. As it is, its more like a person you dont know staring at the junkmail that goes through your letterbox. And, wierd a passtime as that may be, If they want to do that, so what?

I think a lot of people who have that reaction have the following though process:

Looking at any small subset of the things I do = invasion of privacy.
Watching me masturbate = invasion of privacy
therefore, Looking at any small subset of the things I do is as bad as watching me manhandling my man-handle.

I just want to see it tastefully done, be non-intrusive, and not hinder my performance of the game I already paid for.

agreed. But...already paid for? You implying that this is making you pay twice?

Nickface · Post by **Nickface** » October 20th, 2006, 16:54

I think the "looking through a window" comparison is okay. I mean, it's not like they're watching you the ENTIRE time, it could even be a person casually walking down the street taking a look from the sidewalk, which would make you say, "hey, what the hell, man?"

Joose wrote:agreed. But...already paid for? You implying that this is making you pay twice?

Well, the word "pay" is not the right word there, I think. By purchasing the game, you expect a few things to happen. If my PC meets the system requirements on the box, then I expect it to run well on my system (well, at least 50% of the time with an EA product

). I don't want to then turn around and have my performance hindered because the company is generating supplimental income and my data needs to get sent in and out. If something like that happens, then indeed, I'm paying for the ads in a sense of redused performance. And while it may be okay now, who's to say that the whole data collecting structure won't get changed in future patches?

I am highly doubtful that any of this ad stuff is going to cause any bogging down or excessive performance issues. A company would be foolish to hurt a game that way as it's a PR nightmare that it'd have trouble shaking off. I just want things to work, plain and simple.

Post by **FatherJack** » October 21st, 2006, 1:16

I saw BF2142 today in Tescos as I passed on the way to the fridges and it was about the only decent release this week, despite me not having played the last two add-ons at all, I think if we hadn't had this discussion, I might have bought it in a moment of weakness. But no, I was strong, and shuffled on with an empty trolley towards the fish counter.

You see, I fucking hate adverts. I hate then on the TV when they keep showing the same ones, I hate them when they pop up and float over websites, hate the bastards you can't skip on DVDs and hate them when they occupy simultaneous pages in magazines. I hate that stupid car advert with the sock puppets, I hate all telephone-related adverts, I hate Linda Barker, I hate any form of banking, insurance or loan service, I hate people who "are worth it", I hate that swedish village, but not as much as anyone who drives an Audi, I hate Sky adverts - on Sky, cartoon frogs wiping their arses, Sarah's Mum, spackers walking tightropes, June "you'll soon be dead so give us some cash" Whitfield, spring water, Karl Howman, vain men with grey hair, that baby that scores a (clearly offside) goal, the Intel jingle, wax/bingo/etc virgins, brand-new customers only, you can buy me lunch, if I'm still alive, we 'ave never been so far from 'ome, margarine that makes you cry, spotty teenagers, ScottScott, fussy-eater cats, the french, wiiings, Seat - no-one wants your horrible little cars even if they did win a race once, trying to convince people that some Mickey-Mouse certificate in PC repair is a guarantee of a well-paid rewarding future, stuffing a load of cereal in a handbag in a too-graphic representation of bloatedness, carnivorous pandas, stuff that's supposed to be good simply because it does what it says on the fucking tin, finking per-sons small cars and British fucking Telecom.

I rarely watch live TV anymore, preferring to record it so I can skip the ads - but I've still managed to be subjected to all of those atrocities on multiple occasions. I only listen to BBC radio. I don't buy computer magazines anymore. I use Firefox. Ad-makers: I don't want your filthy excrement in my brain and politely request that you all fuck off and die. I have failed.

So...I didn't buy BF2142. The fact it's not my money they're making off ads isn't so much the issue - it's just abhorrent how utterly greedy they are. It was priced the same as a regular game (so more than an add-on, despite the fact you can buy the technology that drives it for 5 notes less now). I also don't see any announcements about them slashing the extortionate licensing charges required for ranked servers. So, it's just more cash for them.

Also, it's illogical. The game, I believe, is set in the year 2142. By my reckoning, it is now approximately 2006. Having 2006-style adverts in a 2142-style game is an awful immersion-breaking experience, escpecially as their very raison d'etre is to be noticed.

And..it's crap game..probably. Whatever portion of my 25 notes they would have received will now be curiously absent from their next balance sheet and I fully expect their empire to immediately crumble into destitution.

Post by **Roman Totale** » October 21st, 2006, 1:21

Oh go on, seeing as it's on topic:

Bill Hicks on Marketing

No, it's not horses.

Post by **Dog Pants** » October 21st, 2006, 1:50

FatherJack wrote:You see, I fucking hate adverts. I hate then on the TV when they keep showing the same ones, I hate them when they pop up and float over websites, hate the bastards you can't skip on DVDs and hate them when they occupy simultaneous pages in magazines. I hate that stupid car advert with the sock puppets, I hate all telephone-related adverts, I hate Linda Barker, I hate any form of banking, insurance or loan service, I hate people who "are worth it", I hate that swedish village, but not as much as anyone who drives an Audi, I hate Sky adverts - on Sky, cartoon frogs wiping their arses, Sarah's Mum, spackers walking tightropes, June "you'll soon be dead so give us some cash" Whitfield, spring water, Karl Howman, vain men with grey hair, that baby that scores a (clearly offside) goal, the Intel jingle, wax/bingo/etc virgins, brand-new customers only, you can buy me lunch, if I'm still alive, we 'ave never been so far from 'ome, margarine that makes you cry, spotty teenagers, ScottScott, fussy-eater cats, the french, wiiings, Seat - no-one wants your horrible little cars even if they did win a race once, trying to convince people that some Mickey-Mouse certificate in PC repair is a guarantee of a well-paid rewarding future, stuffing a load of cereal in a handbag in a too-graphic representation of bloatedness, carnivorous pandas, stuff that's supposed to be good simply because it does what it says on the fucking tin, finking per-sons small cars and British fucking Telecom.

Several LAN-goers can testify at how that made me lol, but really does it really matter? I don't like being a corporate hording so I avoid wearing clothes saying FCUK. I disagree with past principles of Nestle so I don't buy their products (I'm confident I can be proved a hypocrite in this now, but I persist). Fact of it is that I liked the BF2142 demo and if a couple of 5punkers show interest I'll buy it because I want to play a decent game with friends. I really couldn;t give a fart if they're advertising Hello magazine or the new Ford Ka because I'll be more interested in looking for an enemy sniper or AT. It certainly wouldn't detract from the game in any way for me, and it may be mercenary of me but that's what I pay my money for. If they want to tag advertising onto it then let the consumer decide, like me. I really won't care.

5punk

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