URGENT - ISS los of Sov in IS-R7P (Consido)

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » June 21st, 2006, 14:33

fellas, we are currently camping the station at Consido instead of ganking pirates. Why? Because from some reason, we have lost sov on the system. This may or may not be tied up with the fact that DNGD were kicked out of ISS and set to -10.0, according to Odarin(DNGD).

Consido needs urgent help, until the sov issue is settled

amblin · Post by **amblin** » June 21st, 2006, 14:45

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » June 21st, 2006, 15:22

The situation has just been explained by Mynas as follows;

-DNGD wanted to leave ISS (rumour has it to join BoB)
-all POSs in system were DNGD POSs
-ISS had heard rumour that there may be an attack on the Consido outpost (dunno by who)
-DNGD agreed to stay in ISS for enough time for ISS to put up new POSs and claim sov, then DNGD would dismantle theirs
-As soon as the new POSs were up, DNGD immediately dismantled theirs
-BUT. New POSs don't affect sov for 6 days (apparently)
-SO. no sov in system for 6 days
-AND. DNGD were immediately kicked and set -10 by Count
-which led to the fleet firing on Equaliz3r's (Odarin's alt) ship when he undocked, thus pissing off DNGD

/edit; and apparently ISS anti-pirate day was dreamt up because they knew about this situation and wanted a method of getting as many pilots online as possible. Needless to say; keep this to yourselves please. It'll be on EVE-o by the end of the day no doubt and it better not be up there in my words.

This has now been changed to -5 and we have been ordered not to shoot at DNGD. Several DNGD pilots are currently sitting in the station. theer is somewhat of a stand-off going on where they refuse to come out believing that we will shoot at them, but the threat of imminent attack on the station is much more worrying, frankly

Now; Tin foil hat time; can anyone spell one outpost = entry fee into BoB?

amblin · Post by **amblin** » June 21st, 2006, 15:50

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » June 21st, 2006, 15:52

we have corp standings to DNGD already so no problems there. ISS standings have been changed to neutral already.

Toxin reported inbound

amblin · Post by **amblin** » June 21st, 2006, 15:58

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » June 21st, 2006, 16:04

Shit, what a f**king rubbish time to have to go out for a few hours. I'll get on asap and find out from Oda what's going on.

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » June 21st, 2006, 16:23

Ok, not sure if this is going to be official policy on DNGDs parts, but apaprently remaining friendly with DNGD shouldn't be a problem.

to play devils advocate though, it's easy to wisper sweet nothings while you slip a knife

And apaprently they're moving into fountain. Which is Bob space. plot thickens it seems.

amblin · Post by **amblin** » June 21st, 2006, 16:37

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » June 21st, 2006, 16:46

Amblin wrote:As for the tin foil hats, no need methinks. 38 billion isk is a pretty high entry fee!

but it wouldn't be 38Bn of DNGD's money, would it? It'd be 38Bn of our money

/me redons tin foil hat and passes more around

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » June 21st, 2006, 16:56

Ok, 4 points:

1) There is no change (not even a snowballs chance in hell) that we'd be able to get some old DNGD guys in 5punk. Odarin says he's not even scratching the surface and he sounds like he's fuming to me.

2) Technicially, it's about 200 mil of our money, and right now that concerns me a crap load more than most thigns right now.

3) Don't go to Consido (and DON'T post this on the ISS forum. That's ment to be in strictist trust). If your there, make a quiet excuse, POS need fueling, or whatever and leave.

4) I take this with a slight hint of DNGD being fuming to the gills, but apparently Count and the ISS Diplomacy team are being about as faaabulous a bunch of knob cheeses as you can get.

Once it all calms down I'll poke Odarin again, find out what's cause all this, but it seems like it goes back at least 4-6 weeks.

friznit · Post by **friznit** » June 21st, 2006, 18:43

No comment. Other than WTFFFFF?

friznit · Post by **friznit** » June 21st, 2006, 20:22

Whoe, CEO of DNGD:

[18:50:51] Friznit > I just logged in...wtf is going on?
[18:52:32] Friznit > Whoe? There been a big FUBAR or something?
[18:56:27] Whoe > count set us to -5 as a result of us trying to leave quietly
[18:58:22] Friznit > erm. You're leaving?
[18:58:29] Friznit > well, ok, you've left
[18:58:33] Friznit > but -5? wtf?
[18:59:37] Whoe > we were kicked actually
[18:59:45] Friznit > I'd kinda guessed you were handing over sov of ISR to ISSN when all their POS's went up in there, but....
[19:00:03] Whoe > I woke up this morning to that
[19:00:19] Whoe > I should be working now but I'm here working at this..
[19:00:21] Friznit > wtf whoe? I don't get it
[19:00:50] Friznit > One of the most trusted and respected corps in ISS gets kicked?
[19:00:54] Whoe > they think we're acting with toxin to take over the outpost I think
[19:01:03] Friznit > are you?
[19:01:10] Whoe > oh.. yea
[19:01:18] Whoe > why would we do that?
[19:01:37] Friznit > well stranger things have happened, but I take your point
[19:01:39] Whoe > we could have just flipped the sovereignty switch and taken them
[19:01:45] Friznit > true
[19:01:56] Whoe > join another alliance and give them an outpost
[19:02:33] Friznit > so what happened? You asked to transfer sov over to ISSN I take it - hence all their POS's going up this week....
[19:03:12] Whoe > more or less. I wasn't given any warning but if they consider us hostile that would make sense
[19:04:04] Friznit > go back one there - why would ISS consider you hostile? I'm assuming you had an arrangement to hand over sov to ISSN over the course of last week?
[19:04:07] Whoe > so the fact we spent 10 bil on pos's arrays etc to help claim sov for ISS really doesn't mean anything
[19:05:05] Whoe > we were tired of not being able to defend ourselves and we were even organizing training from mercs for the issn and us..
[19:05:39] Whoe > count said we own nothing and control nothing so there is nothing to defend...
[19:05:56] Whoe > so we decided to go to an alliance that will defend itself is all
[19:06:00] Friznit > apart from 10 bill of POS's and several outposts
[19:07:57] Whoe > it's not like we never did anything to help any iss corp members...
[19:08:12] Friznit > This^
[19:08:17] Whoe > so if they did that to us, who's next?
[19:08:28] Whoe > we were set to -10 initially
[19:08:38] Friznit > It's got me thinking that's for sure
[19:12:28] Friznit > first let me say this: real sad to see you guys go. We've had a good relationship going, especially with the likes of Odarin - and I hope we have no hard feelings there
[19:12:58] Whoe > like I said we had no intentions of any hard feelings, we just wanted to move quietly
[19:13:27] Friznit > well you won't get any ill feeling from us, and if you need any help, give us a call

Praxis have not taken a side on this yet. I've not spoken to Lyrus but I'm guessing they'll go with whatever Count says.

As far as we are concerned, carry on normal working until and only if you here any different from Fea - and noone other than Fea.

centerededgedesign · Post by **centerededgedesign** » June 21st, 2006, 20:53

/me shakes head and thanks the many stars that Fw4ppers isn't in ISS!

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » June 22nd, 2006, 5:51

udpate;

Count came on vent last night to give the ISS side of the story as Mynas had done earlier in the day. Essentially the story was the same but with a couple of subtle differences and a bit more info;

1. The threat to Consio was intelled as coming from Outbreak
2. The attack was intelled to occur Wednesday night
3. I don't know if intelled is a word, but couldn't think of an alternative
4. Anti-pirate day was conceived and timed to have pilots in space fitted for PvP should the need to defend against this attack occur
5. The whole DNGD / sovreignty thing was only noticed Wednesday morning, when DNGD took down their POSs

The immediate kicking of DNGD and setting to -10 occured due to the timing of the DNGD pulldown compared with the intelled attack

Whoe's point was valid that they could just have switched sov on their installed POSs by joining another alliance, although I would say that this would have been proof positive of betrayal and that, if I were looking to open an outpost to attack, this is a much sneaker and more deniable way. Oda's personal chargrin may be explained by the fact that Count seems to blame him personally for the debacle. It was Oda who took the POSs down, I guess, and certainly he was still in system when we arrived.

That said; ISS seem now to have accepted that this was a genuine mistake on DNGD's part. It looks like a case of a misunderstanding of the game mechanics (several days (5 or 6?) overlap from putting new POS up to taking old one down required to maintain sov) being interpreted as an act of betrayal on the basis of the timing of the move and that DNGD should have known better, what with them having built the outpost in the first place, iirc.

Some good faith has been shown by ISS resetting DNGD standings positive and by Whoe removing her (imo) absolutely unforgivable post on the EVE-O forums, which publicly detailed the fact that there is an outpost in a system without sov and named the system. I'd have to say that Whoe's job is not done, though, as she only removed her OP, there's a further small post from her which gives the system name although thankfully does not mention sov. An LV guy did manage to get in there though so the current situation is there for all to see.

Count also intimated that he kinda secretly wants Outbreak/Toxin to try for Sov in the system, so we can go spank their arse and actually take something off them (their POSs) rather than just beating back another advance.

I think that's it.

friznit · Post by **friznit** » June 22nd, 2006, 20:16

1. That's it in a nutshell.
2. Intelled is not a word.
3. Even Count gets frustrated by the charter from time to time.
4. Werd.

amblin · Post by **amblin** » June 22nd, 2006, 20:54

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » June 22nd, 2006, 23:45

amblin wrote:Bomber and Friz have done my job for me and probably better than I would've done.

Thanks guys... As for us and the future, we're still ISS through and through. Whilst it suits us.

Yes, I likes what's been said on the ISS forums, so nice one there guys. As for ISS, I'm gona wait a few weeks before I even go so far as to think about that barrel of worms. We've got other stuff to keep us busy atm (like POs re-fueling tommorow. Be nice if it's more than me and friz doing it, but meh imho if it is).

As for my behaviour recently, I appoligse whole-heartidly for my recently behaviour. I'm (suppose) to be PVP director, because of my 9 1/2 months in BS.I, so the way I've been acting recently is completly out of line. I've realised this tonight and I'm detirmined to change my ways from here on out. Anyone else here me spouting cowardice crap, feel free to pod me, I need waking up again.

MORDETH LESTOK · Post by **MORDETH LESTOK** » June 23rd, 2006, 1:20

Let's get you some more ships!

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » June 23rd, 2006, 5:16

PRIMARY \o/