Freight and that

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » March 28th, 2006, 5:42

I JC'd to Marginis yesterday on the back of a rumour that there are T1 ships for sale up there that I could set myself up with. not exactly the truth....

there's a thorax .... for 12 million and a Merlin ... for 91M

definitely an untapped market for us. Manufacturing slots (all 4 of them) seem to be rammed (10 days till the first one is free) so my initial plan of running mins and BPCs up to fabricate here seems impractical, leaving the option of freight.

it costs 25mill per 100km3 or space

If my spaccy calculator fingers are correct, this equates to 250 ISK/m3. With a repackaged frig at 2500m3, this equates to 600,000 ISK in freight costs for one T1 Frig. A cruiser would cost 2.5M freight, which makes the 12M they're asking seem not so outrageous all of a sudden. The freight costs might also explain why there are quite a lot of T2 ships for sale (>ISK per m3)...

I for one think that we have a good potential market in Marginis, how to supply it though?

Post by **fabyak** » March 28th, 2006, 8:22

Would it be worth considering (If we have a regular run of fuel to Marge) getting a small tower with only manufacturing thingy whatsit on (and some guns... obviously (and maybe a reactor?)) Then we can run them there ourselves...

2...

3. Profit!

[edit] CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORD!

friznit · Post by **friznit** » March 28th, 2006, 13:38

Hear you, but not gonna work. Reactor/factory = Medium tower only = too much fuel = no profits even with ferrofluid selling (me and Hehulk already did the maths). Also, where'd we get the mins from? However, Jarizza or some such bunged around 50 frigs of all types in Marge about 2 weeks ago for about 1mill each. They sold out within 10 days. So yes, we do have a market.

narf tho, unless we can get cheaper/free freighter space (like we managed by helping escort Count the other day) then the profit margins are too small. IMO then, options are to transport the mods down in a hauler or two and then fly the frigs down individually (

) or bulid em in the Huzzah Fed factory in V2-VC2 and move em up from there. Or wait till the Prov POO's are built and take em there.

Mmmmm, Prov POO.

Post by **fabyak** » March 28th, 2006, 15:07

I suspected that would be the case, in fact thinking about it im sure this has come up before...

In that case allow me to post a revised version of my last one

Would it be worth considering ...

2...

3. Profit!

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » March 28th, 2006, 15:24

Trouble with Huzzah, from what I see, is that there's not much point building ships there. From random checking yesterday, frig prices there are close to empire so we'd be better just buying them there (no mins freight risks) and hauling / flying them to Marge. Plus it's not that close (13J, if I recall).

otoh, at 1M per frig, we could turn a profit over freight costs, although the freighter would be making more than us, which seems skewed to me.

A 5punk freighter?

btw, was the 250 isk /m3 the discounted price after we scouted for them or is that the normal price and we got it cheaper?

Post by **fabyak** » March 28th, 2006, 15:34

I have 7m in my wallet so im a little way off a freighter (although I think I will invest in Torpedoes as they should do more damage than cruise missiles meaning faster profits!) Although I suppose I should really pay off my 12m worth of debts that I have first

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » March 28th, 2006, 15:37

bomberesque wrote:A 5punk freighter?

Link

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » March 28th, 2006, 18:50

Yeah, I remember that post. Wasn't trying to steal your thunder, but it's still perhaps an idea who's time has come (or will soon).

btw; is 250 ISK / m3 a normal freight price? If so; what does one freighter cost coz 250x750,000 = 187,500,000 which is a lot, nearly 20% of a freigther that costs a Bill....

What sort of support do you need for a freighter?

amblin · Post by **amblin** » March 28th, 2006, 21:19

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » March 29th, 2006, 5:07

Righty-ho. I can help with daytime escort (in fact; not a bad way for me to transfer ships to Marge anyways) should I contact this Ordule guy directly? May be that one escort won't afford us preferential freighting rates but it might be a start.

I'd hazard though that if we have to put up with freight costs then selling T1 frigs in Marge is not a goer atm. We *might* be able to make a bit by hauling BPCs and mins (less volume...?) and queing for manufacture there but, meh, perhaps we're just not ready atm. If you need a proper fleet to support a daytime run then for sure we're not up to it right now.

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » March 29th, 2006, 7:25

Fellas, I have another idea;

I know the manufacturing waiting list is long in Marge but if the answer to the following question is Yes, then I think we can still make a business of this;

The question is; can you que factory slot requests, or it's first come first served when the previous one finishes?

If they can be qued, then we can transfer / have freighted mins for production with BPCs and run them directly in Marge. It's true that we'd wait 10-12 days for the first run, but if we que one set of jobs a week, we'd only have to wait the first time.

Looking at the BPOs, taking Incursus as an example, we need 275 m3 of mins to produce one. At 250 isk/m3, this is around 70k isk per ship in freight costs, much better than 600k for freighting the finished product. For the Rifter and Trist the figures are similar. These are based on having a perfect producer in Marge. JC ftw?

Taking the idea further, can we recyke loot in Marge? If so, then we could get at least some of the low ends from loot recyke, lowering our freight costs further.

I'm not too clear on copying BPOs but it would appear that we need to have an office in a station with copying facilities, is this correct?

Anyway, perhaps an idea

Post by **fabyak** » March 29th, 2006, 8:47

I *think* you can queue up for slots, but im not sure if you can hold onto it indefinite amount of time (although if you get in the queue for a new slot every week that would solve this)

Like the thinking Bomber

If its possible it gets the big

,

and

from me

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » March 29th, 2006, 9:47

Yep, queueing is possible these days. I like that idea. I like it alot!

Post by **fabyak** » March 29th, 2006, 10:36

and it may be cheaper to make the BP copies in Khank and load them up in the Freighter too

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » March 29th, 2006, 11:06

This bit I'm not sure about. For sure I would vote for keeping the BPOs in Empire, my initial thought had been to make copies and send the BPCs to Marge along with the mins, as per Yak's suggestion. I tried to run a copy of one of the corp BPOs as an excercise, but it seems there are no copying facilities in Khank. I chose a station with facilities and available slots then it told me that 5punkorp have no office there blah blah blah. It may be that I have to physically move the BPO over to the station that has the copying facility (there's one with slots available 6 j away from Khank, but marginally lowsec: 0.4, otherwise several days wait in a hisec system, the other one with available slots is Faspera

) but I'm really not up to speed with all this.

I just remembered that we have a butt-load of trit at the POS (or maybe someone mentioned it and it's only just now seeping though into my addled brain), so that could supply the bulk of the required mins, reducing freight requirements by loads as most of the bulk mins required are trit anyway.

Post by **fabyak** » March 29th, 2006, 11:15

We should be able to get in the queue in Khank and create a crap load of all the ones we need too, then jump in the queue again when we start running low

3. PROFIT!

friznit · Post by **friznit** » March 29th, 2006, 16:00

IIRC nearest copying facilities are 6j from Khank. Recently ran the Badger 2 bpo over and ran off a copy - and yes, the bpo must be present at the copying lab.

Marginis has no repro facilities. At all. Therefore all mins need to be transported there. It has about 4 factory slots, usually filled with ISSN making T1 ships and mods for their own use. You can queue for it, or talk to someone like Butter Dog to see if you can join a production run.

We have a repro machine at the POS, and barges and a load of trit. We can produce our own mins easily and run them down to Marge. Or we could get a T1 frig ship buildy thing at the POS. Whatever floats yer boat so to speak.

Back soon

Post by **fabyak** » March 29th, 2006, 16:04

Would we be able to get a buildy thing onto it?

Although if we treat it like the reactor and only have it on when needed I see no reason why not...

amblin · Post by **amblin** » March 29th, 2006, 17:14

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » March 30th, 2006, 8:38

so, I think that to summarise;

manufacture at teh POS not practical for the moment
5punk freighter not practical at the moment
Shipping fabricated T1 ships to Marge by freighter too expensive
Flying T1 ships to marge one by one too boring (not to mention risky)
Manufacture at Marge possible but a bit of a pain
Loot recyke not available in Marge (which is bloody stupid, they could make a mint out of taxing that)

I propose the following

Get 3 or 4 frig BPOs copied to 25 or 50 run BPCs
Mine relevant mins for manufacturing these (possibly some from the POS)
Bung the lot in the next freighter to Marge
Que frigs for maufacture (or jump on a bandwagon with ISSN, whatever makes more sense at the time)
Patiently wait for frigs to cook
sell frigs at prices that would make a whore blush
Profit

comments?