5punk

Joose wrote:I bet you don't shut Steam down when you are not using it (just under 14 MB at startup), and Dropbox is considerably more greedy (a frankly terrifying 39 MB at startup). Hell, XFire uses more resources than those three combined.

Steam, Dropbox and Xfire all start when I damn well tell them to and have clearly visible options to that effect. I don't have to wrestle with Services and Startup managers to stop them.
It's not an Apple thing, I don't like anything that does it surreptitiously.
edit: Well done if they've got rid of QTTask though. Bonjour is a network negotiator they use on a number of applications so I can't imagine they've stopped using that.

Stoat wrote:Steam, Dropbox and Xfire all start when I damn well tell them to and have clearly visible options to that effect. I don't have to wrestle with Services and Startup managers to stop them.

See, this is the kind of argument I don't understand. You seem to not like it because its not easy to do something that there's really no reason you would want to do. Why? I get that its hard to turn off, but I don't understand why you would want to turn it off. Its bloody tiny and doesn't seem to interfere with anything, so it seems like a non-issue.

edit: Well done if they've got rid of QTTask though. Bonjour is a network negotiator they use on a number of applications so I can't imagine they've stopped using that.

Ah, no, you are correct. Bonjour is still there, its just not called bonjour in task manager, so I missed it. Still, its only an extra 1 MB of memory use, so doesn't really change any of my points.

Of course I agree with you, but I've given up defending Apple products from the haters. Although I don't like running iTunes on Windows.

I'm not defending it as such. Im certainly not suggesting that everyone should use iPhones. It doesnt matter a damn to me what phones other people use as long as they are happy with it and dont bug me about what phone I use. Its just that the arguments people tend to have against iPhones seem mostly ill thought out, and there is little in the world that bugs me more than badly thought through arguments.

I think the hate of apple stuff in general is that it's all slightly weasely.

Why does it need to run these extra processes without asking you or giving you an option to turn them off? I don't care if they only use 4kb, it's the presence rather than the effect that bothers me.

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:Why does it need to run these extra processes without asking you or giving you an option to turn them off? I don't care if they only use 4kb, it's the presence rather than the effect that bothers me.

Does Punkbuster? And yet no one jumps up and down about how weasely that is for sticking services in your machine without asking you or giving you an option to turn them off. So what's the difference? Other than "Punkbuster isn't made by Apple"

Actually, That has been mentioned a good few times before, when punkbuster comes up, in the same way apple services are mentioned when itunes comes up.

And I have a pair of batch files for PB, only runs when I need it.
and

Joose wrote:Its bloody tiny and doesn't seem to interfere with anything, so it seems like a non-issue.

It seems like a difference in outlook. You're saying "It's only a few megabytes, why bother?" where-as I see it as "It's not beneficial, why bother?".

My laptop's onboard graphics come with a few startup items too. That NASA moon game we played installed a patch for AMD processors, even though I'm using an Intel. My mouse wants to use its own software, even though it doesn't do anything tangible. The Wacom software make my tablet work, but I use it monthly - maybe.

It's all pretty small, but I'd be waiting a week for my laptop to start.

edit: Tangent achieved.
I'll try and get a nice mobile interface sorted if you tell me what features you want and what devices you all use. I think I can test on Mobile Safari, Opera Mini, BlackBerry and Android.

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:Why does it need to run these extra processes without asking you or giving you an option to turn them off?

From my experience iTunes wont start if you remove all the services and startup stuff. So rather than saying "Do you want install these services that make your application work: Yes/No?" the installer assumes you want to be able to run the app you're installing. Of course I've no idea if these services could be inside the application rather than as separate entities. I don't know how it all works at that level. I suspect at least one of them is watching for a device to be connected and to start iTunes automatically. Apple likes to have features like that even if you don't.

Stoat wrote:It seems like a difference in outlook. You're saying "It's only a few megabytes, why bother?" where-as I see it as "It's not beneficial, why bother?"

This. Sorta.

I like to keep processes/services running pretty minimal because the gonk doesn't have a huge amount of ram and I try to keep stuff performing as well as possible while running all the bloat I like to have running.

Course, the bloat I do have is stuff I'm using, I don't run stuff for fun

Dr. kitteny berk wrote: And I have a pair of batch files for PB, only runs when I need it.

Uh, I may be missing something obvious here, but surely you could do the same thing with the apple services?

It seems like a difference in outlook. You're saying "It's only a few megabytes, why bother?" where-as I see it as "It's not beneficial, why bother?".

Is this not a circular argument though? Theres no benefit because you don't have an iPhone because itunes is bad because it has this thing that is of no benefit to you.

Stoat wrote: I'll try and get a nice mobile interface sorted if you tell me what features you want and what devices you all use. I think I can test on Mobile Safari, Opera Mini, BlackBerry and Android.

Nokia 5800 and Opera Mini here.

Joose wrote:Is this not a circular argument though? Theres no benefit because you don't have an iPhone because itunes is bad because it has this thing that is of no benefit to you.

iTunes is often of benefit to me! I have an ipod touch that needs syncing every now and again and sometimes I use iTunes to buy music. The iPhone is a nice enough device; if I wanted one I would happily continue using iTunes as I do now- rarely.

edit: Ta Lat.

I use iTunes. I like it and have no issues with it.


I am a heathen.

I don't use iTunes because I've never bought a product that uses it. Not because I hate them, I just don't buy gadgets. I don't even like texting.

I'm posting from my goddamn phone!