Corp Activities and Your Involvement

[friznit]

Couple of points for everyone, before this gets heated. Please read all of this before replying.

Noone will horse you to PvP, but we will strongly encourage you to do so. In order to achieve what we want to achieve in the long term as a corp, we need to be able to hold our own in what is essentially a PvP game. As I said before, the days of idly ratting and mining in neutral ISS space have long since gone from Eve. We need to adapt to survive and in this case that means we need to fight.

All i am saying is whos right is it in any corp in this game or in RL to tell you what to do - someone wants to spend $15 a moth per character to mine or ... etc

The CEO and the Corp Directors. They run the corp, dictate corp policy and outline what is required of the membership. That's the whole point of a corp.

Re. US Timezone: it is acknowledged at Alliance level that we are weak in the US TZ. We are looking at recruiting an Ex-ISS US TZ PvP corp to fill the gap. Remember also that 5punkorp is open for recruiting at the moment as well.

On corp activity in general: let me be clear. I want people who are online to participate in corp activity. If that activity is PvP, then I'd like you to come PvP. If it's mining in Goram then we go mining. If it's running missions in Jita then we all join in. Whatever it is, we do it together as a corp, otherwise we're just a loose collection of individuals achieving nothing.

Clearly this is a change from the way we used to run things in ISS, but it is necessary for our survival. We will continue to be robust in our approach but equally we will do everything we can to help the corp adapt - building ships, providing training and running plenty of ops.

Final point: there are plenty of other ways you can help both the corp and the alliance outside of PvP and I'm more than happy for you to do only industrial or logistics stuff. But if you put nothing into the corp but only ever take, then I'll be asking you to find somewhere else to spend your time.

[Hehulk]

Seems fair

[Dog Pants]

Eep! That's not a nice thing to see on the front page.

This may have already been suggested, so apologies if I'm saying something blatantly obvious, but why don't you encourage people who don't want to PvP to join Fwappers? Surely that would help in recruiting and keep everyone happy (and 5punky) without having to resort to ultimatums?

Like I said, just a suggestion from an outsider looking in. Feel free to tell me to shut up.

[Hehulk]

This may have already been suggested, so apologies if I'm saying something blatantly obvious, but why don't you encourage people who don't want to PvP to join Fwappers? Surely that would help in recruiting and keep everyone happy (and 5punky) without having to resort to ultimatums

The way I read it (and it did occure to me it could be taken two ways) this is more of an effort to once and for all get the corp working together full time. We're all in the same corp because we're all mates (or we should be). Why wouldn't people want to spend time doing shit with their mates, and achieving junk to get that nice warm feeling accomplishment brings?

If people really arn't interested in stuff like that, I'd suggest they're in the wrong corp too (Plus it's the same line I take being a BS.I director).

Disclaimer: Remeber I'm a grunt too, I need to pull my own weight or it'll be me on the choping block.

[Dog Pants]

Just strikes me that had I been still playing Eve I'd have been worried by this. I did want to PvP but I was always crap at it and it took me so long to get the money for ships that I was reluctant to risk them. I did read the 'Why aren't you PvPing' thread, and I see that a lot of the issues I had have been addressed, but remember that 5punkorp is the Eve part of 5punk and if people don't enjoy PvP then shouldn't they be given another option to continue playing with 5punkers?

[bomberesque]

DP (and any others watching)

the way I read this is not as a call to arms but a call to participate. You can be an industrial monkey in 5punk ... although possibly more usefully in NV with their 0.0 mining access.

The point that Friz is making, and he's made it several times in the past (way back to ISS days) is that we play as a group or we're not a group. If we're not a group then what's the point. The only issue I have with this is it's somwhat at odds with the 5punky way, which could be loosely interpreted as do what the fek you want, nvm anyone else, but then that was always a bit of an excuse not to expect anything from anyone anyway. My dad used to say "expect nothing of life and you can never be dissapointed". My dad talks some crap at times.

To those who may counter that "the corp doesn't put together ops to do the things I like doing" I say organise an op that will do what you want to do and let's go do the thing that you want to do, together. If it's boring as shit, I'll tell you so. I feking hate mining, but I do it with the corp because of the team aspect. Sadly I'm begining to enjoy mining

As for the US TZ thing, I suggest a corp effort to recruit more seppos.

/end

[Dog Pants]

I appreciate that Eve is a team game and that in order for a corp to work it needs to have a level of organisation, but what I read on the front page appeared to say PvP or GTFO. This is not 5punky.

Now, I know that you guys put a lot of work into making 5punkorp a success, so I understand that you don't want people freeloading off that work, but I don't think it's unreasonable to offer casual players who just want to do a bit of ratting or trading or whatever another avenue so that they can still play with other 5punkers.

[bomberesque]

...Please read all of this before replying.

....stuff....

Final point: there are plenty of other ways you can help both the corp and the alliance outside of PvP and I'm more than happy for you to do only industrial or logistics stuff. But if you put nothing into the corp but only ever take, then I'll be asking you to find somewhere else to spend your time.

it doesn't say PvP or get lost, it says participate or .... erm ... get lost

/edit and I don't know of a case thus far where someone's been "asked to leave", although with my itinerant online time, I may be the first

[Dog Pants]

I know, I read it. I'll simplify my two points:

1. The post appears on the front page and looks like an ultimatum.

2. If a 5punker wants to play Eve with other 5punkers can't they do it in Fwappers?

To elaborate on the first point a little. Anyone reading the article on the front page will get an inaccurate view of 5punk. It looks like something a clan would post. I understand the intent and agree with it, but only within Eve. Maybe it should have been posted in the 0.0 forum, as that's there for specifically 5punkorp issues.

To elaborate on my second point. While 5punkorp may not be able to accomodate casual players, surely Fwappers can? If the way Fwappers works has changed since it was set up then I can accept that, as I don't watch the Eve forums that closely (you guys pretty much moderate yourselves).

[friznit]

Bomber's hit the nail on the head. Dog Pants, I'm afraid to say, you missed the pot. Grab a mop and go to the back of the queue

For those of you looking in from the outside, you probably failed to notice that 5punkorp damn nearly fell over and died 2 months ago - even the CEO quit playing. We're going through a long and painful recovery, and I have no doubt there will be casualties along the way.

...so that they can still play with other 5punkers.

Is exactly the point. If they want to play with other 5punkers they're welcome to do so in 5punkorp. But they must join in with what 5punkorp is doing, whether that's mining, ratting, missions and yes, PvP as well. If they want to spend their entire time doing their own thing and never playing with us then fine, we have x-5punkers channel to keep in touch.

Call it a reinterpretation of the 5punky way: play for the team or GTFO. The slackers corp mentality nearly killed us. It simply doesn't work.

[friznit]

Fw4ppers has been closed down. Everyone there wanted to join 5punkorp.

Edit: moved this to 0.0 forum, in case we scare off the furries.

[Dog Pants]

Fair point about the x-5punkers channel, I can accept that. I don't disagree with saying pull your weight, and trimming out dead wood. I saw first hand the way one or two people were doing all the work when we moved out to 0.0, so I understand perfectly. I'm not arguing with you on that point. But nobody has told me why people who don't fit into 5punkorp aren't being encouraged into Fwappers instead.

Digressions aside, my original post was made because I saw a post at the top of the front page that might put off potential 5punkers. I was offering a (possibly only partially informed) suggestion as to how it might be made more fluffy, and I've no desire to interfere with the way 5punkorp is run.

EDIT: And Friz anwered both issues before I finished this. Cheers fella

[bomberesque]

Bomber's hit the nail on the head.

you mean I will be the first to be asked to leave

[centerededgedesign]

I think Bomber hit a couple nails, actually. (Giant f'ing hammer ftw!) Something along the lines of "I don't really like mining, but I come along for the team, and am beginning to like it" The team is what a corp is about. Solo stuff is just as easy to do in the starter corp, it's just not as much fun. Ganging up makes missions a breeze, even if it's just a dessie running about salvaging like mad to maximize profits. Mining solo without a hauler is a drag. PVP without somebody to either help do damage or lock the target down isn't nearly as fun. Freight runs into low sec w/out a scout aren't any good. The game is weighted unevenly into the 'work with others' category because without that aspect, it wouldn't be as much fun. Try to price-check without mates around.

Bomber may not have liked mining, but it supports those shiny ships he flies in a manner that makes them expendable enough to attempt solo pvp. Luckily, the corp can buy mins atm to make ships without as much mining. It all goes together, as long as people participate. I can see people that always come to mining ops, but never benefit from getting a ship thinking that it's not fair. I can see people raiding the hangar but never giving back as not fair. But PLEASE try to do what you can for the corp. It's much greater than the sum of it's parts, but only if we work together.

/me puts his soapbox away, sorry for the preachy sounding post, but I see SOOOO much potential with the skills and people we have. I would really miss you all if we can't make this work! We need a strong center/goal/direction, and being able to survive a fight is key, even if we're just scouting a freighter about!

[bomberesque]

the concept of goals is a good one, and would help shape the ops we plan

for the PvPers it's simple. <s>They</s> We want ships and fittings. The corp erplacement ship programme supports this goal

What do the industrialists and mission runners (and whateverelse) want? and what can we do to support their goals?

We mined like bastards fro wiggy's freighter, but that was a one-off and done now. I'd be interested to see an idea for the industrialists about an ongoing scheme (like the corp replacement ship programme) that <s>we could run for them</s> could be run for them, with corp involvement, but I don't know what they want.

Just please please please don't ask us to seige anything m'kay?

[Dolly Parton]

Sorry I don't have the time now to read everyones reply to frizs post. Work is starting to wipe me out to point when I get home EVE is last thing on my mind. I know its heart breaking but I'll be on when I can.

/me signed (post)

That is the best explanation I have seen yet in reference to this PvP direction the corp is taking and overall corp activity. I agree everyone should participate in the corp in one way or another and given the list of options is best and less confusing.



PS

After reading some replies got me curious

PvP people get ships and mods from the logistic folks and themselves if they show up and work at it but what do the logistics folks get from the PvP folks other than war stories?

CEO and Directors are elected officials and accountable to their members? or just the directors? or how is management of 5punk going to be from now on, these members for good or every 6 months - 1 year have elections for new officers?

US recruitment stay away from people in Alabama, trust me. Just think of Forest Gump state wide and you'll understand

Also glad I wasn't the only one that interpreted the GTFO the same way I did.

Hope to see you guys soon

[centerededgedesign]

How about we conduct an op to buy Hulks for the industrialists, and pay them for their mins when the corp can afford it. In turn, the corp is providing them with good mining space due to involvement with the alliance, which in turn needs pvp peeps for it's goals of crushing an old enemy. IAC.

Since we'd need isk for Hulks, perhaps mission running en horse, or some market activity, or other non-shooty work would be in order? Conduct some ops that include them, including people being important and all. On the other side of the coin though, if people come to help you, it's in your best interest to return the favor so they will come next time you need/want them.

[bomberesque]

PvP people get ships and mods from the logistic folks and themselves if they show up and work at it but what do the logistics folks get from the PvP folks other than war stories?

OK, I think you have found the head of the nail there, but let me clarify (from my perspective)

• Corp operates a ship replacement programme for ships used in corp PvP ops
  These ships are paid/mined/whatever for by corp ops

this may sound like miners feed PvPers but actually it shouldn't be the case. As I said in a previous post, I come to corp mining ops when I can the same whay I come to corp PvP ops when I can. I will be satisfied if I feel that the corp mining I have done about equals or even outweighs the ships/help etc I'm getting from the corp. Currently I owe the corp and I realise that.

Industrialists may be excused from coming on PvP ops if PvP is not their thing or whatever, but PvPer screams of "I hate mining" will not get you exempted from turning up to mining ops.

at least that's how I see it

As for Dres' idea about buying industrialists hulks, yeah whatever, sounds good ... just an extension of the corp ship programme really. But is that it for the industrialists, suck rock and make isk? is there nothing more?

Do you have the ambition to build capitals, run drugs, corner the market in scrap ,metal, start (and run) a heinously complex reaction chain?

This is the wrong thread I know, but these things hsould be mulled over. I'm happy for people in the corp to want different things form the game but I'm fairly certain that what no-one wants is to feel used ... in the way that, say, Friz probably felt used at the end of the ISS thing ... so I'd like to see a discussion started by the industrialists (actually, any non pvp centered group or player) about what they want out of the corp, so that we can build a fair and functioning whole.

/rant of

[friznit]

We asked what people wanted out of the corp some time ago. Everyone here replied and we've done our best to meet those aspirations, always understandings of course that you can't please everyone.

Eve is a PvP game. If you want to secure yourself a safe home with fat rats, fatter roids and a POS bubble to call your own, you have to be able to fight for it. That means blowing up little internet spaceships faster then they blow up yours. Industry, logistics, PvE - it's all just a means to an end: you mine to build ships and earn isk to fit them out so you can go blow up the next guy. Why does it always seems that you're working for the PvPers? Because you are.

That doesn't mean our industrialists (and here I mean those who have a total aversion to PvP) cannot do their work in a comfortable environment, with as much assistance from the corp as possible. Now, if you want to see what 5punkorp has done for the industrials, take a look at the setup in Period Basis sometime and guess how much has gone into it. I'll help you get started: 3 billion isk, 7 days of flat out work by me and Jimmy, Bistot and Krystallos ice, a refining station right next door, in one of the quietest areas of Eve, and that's not counting the months of work I put into acquiring all that stuff in the first place.

In return for which, I'm asking for a little participation in corp ops, and some fleet ships to keep us in the fight.

And the CEO and Directors, whilst ofc remaining accountable for their actions, remain in post until they stand down, give up Eve for an extended period or the corp falls over, at which point we'll elect some more.

[Dolly Parton]

Eve is a PvP game.

this is the biggest crock of shit i have heard. NO I am not arguing you on this cause I do that in Eve-O.

Yes it has a PvP base game but its not a PvP game. PvP game would mean no missions, no cosmos, no ratting, no officer drops, no faction gear, no sanasha, no blood raiders, none of them.

yes they are all a means to an end but to whos end? the developers? not the PvPers cause they just shoot each other if they are true pvpers cause true pvp means u only shoot other players, once you even hit F1 and shoot the rat you are in pve territory which if eve is pvp wouldn't exist

eve has over 200k subsribers now, 25k online average.of them 25k who u think is pvping? now how many are mining, trading, running missions, complexes.

Eve a PvP based game is bs.



ps

this is not an attack at anyone just a heated subject i am involved in. i got friends that play this game just to run a mission or 2 every once and a while and if no PvE then Scott, Jimmy and Matt would not be playing and i would have 3 less friends.

pss

i hate being too busy for eve