Poor Man's PvP

friznit · Post by **friznit** » April 21st, 2007, 16:51

I was chatting to some Hobo's about how us poor folk could be of use to a PvP gang, cos I know that some people (myself included) often feel pretty superfluous next to all these shiny T2 ships. But they assured me that even a frig can be hugely useful in a gang and here's some of the ideas they came up with:

Rifter Tackler. The poor man's interceptor, and a great way to learn before splashing out on inty's. Fast, fun, and free (we have all the BPO's in 5punkorp for the ship and fittings): 20km scam, web and mwd, 2 nanos and overdrive. Fit whatever you want in the highs (guns/rockets/nos). Guide Price: Free! (~1mill in 0.0)

Vigil Painter: this ship is often overlooked. Faster than a rifter and has a painter bonus which can hugely increase the dmg done by your gang mates. We have the BPO's in 5punkorp for this too. Fit mwd, scram, painter, nanos, overdrive and whatever your preference is for high slots. Guide Price: Free! (~750k in 0.0)

Cormorant anti-inty: another hugely underated ship. It packs a powerful punch and can pop frigs in 2 volleys. Watch our for your cap using AM ammo. Fit rails, sensor booster, 20km scram, tracking comp and set overview for frigs and inty's only. Guide Price: 2mill

EW Frigs: The Maulus (Damp), Crucifier (Trk Disruptor) and Griffin (ECM) have all been used to good effect in gangs. They're dirt cheap and totally disposable.

Kessy Inty Pwner: Perhaps my favourite ship of all time, the kestrel is a great surprise present for those inty's that think they can have you. Slow as hell and watch out for Crows that orbit outside your web range. Fit 4 Rkts, 2 webs, scram, MAPC and 400mm plate.

Remember that we have BPO's for nearly all this stuff in elgoi and can churn them out for free and get them jumped out to Unity, so after insurance you'd even be making a profit!

Knight · Post by **Knight** » April 21st, 2007, 17:10

Aye, I had great fun fighting with the Alliance against Slyph in a RifterTackler and I did indeed feel useful

MORDETH LESTOK · Post by **MORDETH LESTOK** » April 21st, 2007, 17:20

any links or basic combat info on how, I (a noob pilot in a rifter), tackles? and/or survives?

Lee · Post by **Lee** » April 21st, 2007, 19:03

MORDETH LESTOK wrote:any links or basic combat info on how, I (a noob pilot in a rifter), tackles? and/or survives?

Basically, orbit your target and hope they dont target you or cant hit you if they do

Theres a more survivable rifter setup but it cant web:

3x 250mm arty with nuclear ammo, standard launcher
mwd, 20km scram, sensor booster/cap recharger
micro auxiliary power core/overdrives/nanos/cap power relays as needed.

Orbit outside web range at your guns optimal.

northwesten · Post by **northwesten** » April 21st, 2007, 19:16

Lee wrote:
Basically, orbit your target and hope they dont target you or cant hit you if they do Theres a more survivable rifter setup but it cant web:

3x 250mm arty with nuclear ammo, standard launcher
mwd, 20km scram, sensor booster/cap recharger
micro auxiliary power core/overdrives/nanos/cap power relays as needed.

Orbit outside web range at your guns optimal.

It be best with rifter to use 2 rocket and nos! 20km or 2 / web and MWD and in lowed have cap relays with one small rep is u can. Having a sencer booster when u can have an extra scam or web be a wast of space.

Rifter needs to maintain cap for mwd and scraming! by using guns on it u lose you're cap quick. not really need overdrives as Rifter can go 2k + in speed anyhow.

My fitting at 3nos a rocket / MWD 20km scram / wed / Rep and Cap relays. No need for booster as you're in frig with good lock time. Tho if u want to kill pods then have 2 nos and two rockets. Reason is rockets hard use cap and it hits when u in range.

northwesten · Post by **northwesten** » April 21st, 2007, 19:21

Oh and Yer if we can have loads of Tacklers it be great or vigils! best then butter dog and other can put another mod on there ship to course more damage.

I honestly think if Hobo does damage and we in frigs with damps/ Panters and tacklers it be a really good mixs! IF any crusier class pilots they can kill there support too.

BS = Killing people
Crusier = Killing Support
Frigs = ECM / pant / tackle
Inty = kill frigs
Interdictor = kill frigs and intys (1337 tackler)
Recon = ECM / Damps / tracking disruptors (If BS coming at distance)

This what i be should be like. So as hobo can deal damage in T2 fitted ship we can course mayhem on the hostiles.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » April 21st, 2007, 19:23

northwesten wrote:stuff

I think you missed the entire point of my setup, it provides more survivability than a close range rifter since you wont get webbed. The sensor booster is more for lock range than time since its pretty short by default. A 20k scram is easily sustained with a couple of cap rechargers/relays and you won't be running the mwd non-stop. Nanos/overdrives provide more speed because you can never have enough.

It's still better to go for a close range rifter though since you can web and they cost next to nothing to lose even if you buy it. I was just mentioning the setup since mordeth asked for survivability tips.

friznit · Post by **friznit** » April 21st, 2007, 20:20

Thing's that stop people hitting you: speed, distance and small signature

In frigs it's a balancing act between maintaining all three whilst staying close enough to web and scram the enemy. The ideal is to orbit very fast at 26km (outside heavy nos range) and scram them from there, but this is only possible with ships like the crow using faction gear and funky implants.

In rifters you can't really get that far out to make a difference, running your mwd will make your sig radius go through the roof, and your cap really can't sustain all the modules running at the same time. But then, you'll not be fighting solo so your gang mates will quickly nos/damp/jam and probably get more tacklage on the target. Think of the rifter as the initial suicide tackle to catch the target and hold on long enough to get the big boys there.

The trick if to mwd on approach, turn off the mwd at about 18km out and as you arrive hit the orbit button set so that you orbit at 11km so you can run away if he targets you (assuming he has a web). Often enough I just get stuck right in at 500m orbiting - most guns can't hit a small target that close without webs - and nos him to keep the scam/web going with the odd burst of mwd if it looks dicey.

Final thing - as he enters structure drop the scram off so you're ready to grab his pod

Post by **Dog Pants** » April 21st, 2007, 20:50

This seems to epitomise my way of playing Eve. Rifters make excellent close-range fighters and my Brawler setup proves that. As a tackler it's easily modified for scramming rather than damage. I've taken on two Cruisers in a bog-standard Rifter and almost come up tops at short range. Missiles were the downfall in the end.

My advice for Rifters? Cap is not as important as you think - my winning PvE had two bars of cap but recharged so fast I could destroy two or three rat BCs. Of course meet someone with a nos and you're fucked, but in a fleet that's not likely.

friznit · Post by **friznit** » April 21st, 2007, 20:51

Feeling nostalgic? You know you are

Post by **Dog Pants** » April 21st, 2007, 20:57

I'm always feeling nostalgic. I love Rifters almost as much as I love my own car. I can do terrible things to people when I'm in a Rifter, if only I had the time.

Al these free MMONGS just make me realise how I'm missing the depth of Eve. Unfortunately I'm doomed to always lag behind the curve due to work or wife. Pity, I've still got a Jaguar in Empire somewhere.

northwesten · Post by **northwesten** » April 21st, 2007, 21:06

mm i just remembered but when i was with crow i was flying in a crow T2 AB and i was doing and 1500ms and that in a gang fast enough to keep going in orbit + alot easyer on cap for other mods! I love that set up when tackling. Funny enough i last longer too even tho i get hit! I havent tryed nano but i dont want to reduce the HP tho.

Rifter are there to die for tackle! Crows are advanced and experianced tacklers and have to work staying alive.

Post by **Dog Pants** » April 21st, 2007, 21:24

northwesten wrote:Rifter are there to die for tackle! Crows are advanced and experianced tacklers and have to work staying alive.

Not true. A decent Rifter (or presumably any other frig) pilot can avoid all but shortest range guns through speed and agility. I accept that Eve might have changed since I last played it, but nothing but another Frig or maybe a cruiser with a lot of time could ever hit me at 0.5km orbit.

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » April 21st, 2007, 21:30

Dog Pants wrote:I accept that Eve might have changed since I last played it

It has, frigs got faster. Time was fast was like 4-5K/s. These days it's up in the 15K/s area

Post by **Dog Pants** » April 21st, 2007, 21:39

Hehulk wrote:
It has, frigs got faster. Time was fast was like 4-5K/s. These days it's up in the 15K/s area

Holy crap! I used to get that with a MWD, which is why I was on two bar cap in a Rifter.

Well, behind the times I may be but it's easy to underestimate the underdog if you're targetting a BS and you've got a couple of Rifters spaming you with anti-cap and ECM.

I wish I had the resources to catch up.

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » April 21st, 2007, 21:50

Not really, most comptentant BS pilots (read 1/50th of BS pilots in eve) are quite aware of what kind of pain those 2 frigs are causing him, and will stick drones and all sorts onto you to get himself unscrambled. And since when is eve about the destination, it's the journey that counts

friznit · Post by **friznit** » April 21st, 2007, 22:30

What Hulk said. Rydis has less than 10mill SP and I do more PvP with him than I do with my main (possibly cos it's a lot cheaper when I fuck up, which is all the time

)

Anhamgrimmar · Post by **Anhamgrimmar** » April 22nd, 2007, 9:26

northwesten wrote:
It be best with rifter to use 2 rocket and nos! 20km or 2 / web and MWD and in lowed have cap relays with one small rep is u can. Having a sencer booster when u can have an extra scam or web be a wast of space.

Rifter needs to maintain cap for mwd and scraming! by using guns on it u lose you're cap quick. not really need overdrives as Rifter can go 2k + in speed anyhow.

My fitting at 3nos a rocket / MWD 20km scram / wed / Rep and Cap relays. No need for booster as you're in frig with good lock time. Tho if u want to kill pods then have 2 nos and two rockets. Reason is rockets hard use cap and it hits when u in range.

Note: Projectiles dont need cap to operate and are 'easier' (read: less skill intensive) to hit with, outside of web/scram range IMO.

also, never underestimate Target painters (especially when fitted to a vigil or bellicose). a pair of TPs aimed at an inrushing interceptor will make the inty a delicious sized target, especially in conjunction with......

The GankaThrasherTM

7x 280mm arty II
2x Sensorboosters
1x RSD/scram/web/whatever
2x Gyro/RCU/PDU to taste.

While it's not as long ranged as a Cormy, i think it has a better damage capability at around 30km. and its great for taking pods out when your battleship support has cracked the enemies hull in two.

northwesten · Post by **northwesten** » April 22nd, 2007, 10:47

i think 30km is a good range! oo and i like the idea of a pod killer hehe i going to try my destoyer some point

friznit · Post by **friznit** » April 25th, 2007, 12:42

Useful thread on the Alliance forum about getting into PvP. Coupled with the cheap ship ideas it should help anyone feeling a little unsure to get going.