Corp tax
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First off I'd like to say that I have no problem with tax so the corp has enough money to function. It is probably one of the fairest ways of running a corp.
Edit: I didn't read your post well, my post made no sense, re-written it...
My thoughts are don't run a pos chain, even if they make ISK I don't think the effort and the pains in running it arent worth it. I've seen how much effort they take, not to mention money. Then after a break we could always give it another go. I also think the alliance should fund the tycho ones, not members of 5punkorp. It is after all the alliance that benifits as a whole. Especially if we can't make use of the moon products for profit.
Edit: I didn't read your post well, my post made no sense, re-written it...
My thoughts are don't run a pos chain, even if they make ISK I don't think the effort and the pains in running it arent worth it. I've seen how much effort they take, not to mention money. Then after a break we could always give it another go. I also think the alliance should fund the tycho ones, not members of 5punkorp. It is after all the alliance that benifits as a whole. Especially if we can't make use of the moon products for profit.
Last edited by Fear on November 13th, 2006, 13:51, edited 2 times in total.
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FatherJack
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I've never had a problem with the idea of tax, even up to 50%, but the initial post indicates this will only be on bounty and missions. Most of my income is generated by selling loot, via my fw4ppers alt, and I would be sorry this was not contributing.
I like the idea that every little bit I do helps the corp a little, the only thing I've ever requested in return is information on, and perhaps a small say on how our cash is being spent. Keeping zero-profit, man-hour-sucking installations does seem a bit foolhardy, but there may be benefits I am not aware of.
I'm trying really hard not to sound like a shareholder who expects eventual financial gain, nor a corp sponsor who expects recognition, I don't desire a controlling interest stake in the corp, but neither do I want to feel like an anonymous benefactor. It's sort of somewhere inbetween these, and hard to explain. Just want to feel we're doing our bit, and know (collectively) what that bit is.
I like the idea that every little bit I do helps the corp a little, the only thing I've ever requested in return is information on, and perhaps a small say on how our cash is being spent. Keeping zero-profit, man-hour-sucking installations does seem a bit foolhardy, but there may be benefits I am not aware of.
I'm trying really hard not to sound like a shareholder who expects eventual financial gain, nor a corp sponsor who expects recognition, I don't desire a controlling interest stake in the corp, but neither do I want to feel like an anonymous benefactor. It's sort of somewhere inbetween these, and hard to explain. Just want to feel we're doing our bit, and know (collectively) what that bit is.
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bomberesque
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I have no issue with the imposition of a corp tax.
Regards POS chain I echo the feelings above. If the chain makes no money, it seems a bit counterproductive to maintain it. I do appreciate, however, the advantage of our "mini-outposts" in the systems surrounding KDF/Tycho. A debate on options to make the hardware we have work better for the corp might be interesting. I guess the options are;
- Maintain it as it is. Watch Friz go mad
- Reduce to a minimum number of POSes to store ships and that at
- Get rid of them all. Conflict witht he ISS charter?
- Move them (or some of them) somewhere where they will make money.
I recall some pretty healthy predictions of how the POS chain would provide income for the corp, but I understand that each time we turn around, the bottom has fallen out of the market for which-ever product we've set up to produce. I would hazard that this is because of the flood of corps moving in around the catch area, led by the almost inconceivable improvement in the security situation there. We had W9 completely to ourselves only a few short months ago, afterall. I remember when it was all trees etc etc). I have demonstrated little interest in the past in the mechanics of the POSs or the markets they feed and, frankly, that's unlikely to change. I do, however, appreciate the effort that goes in from those that do have an interest in it and the frustration they are feeling at the brick wall they're bashing their head against at the moment (loads of work = no profit) is palpable.
In the end, I will support any decision made by the corp but would argue that at least a minimal POS setup is worth maintaining (even if this actually loses money, it can be paid fro with the taxes, as it facilitates the earning of them by acting as ratting and mining bases) and that perhaps it's time for us to move somewhere a bit wilder and sparsely populated.
As regards the Tycho deathstar, if we are unable to maintain it, I certainly think that ISS should be able to lend a hand, either with direct help or indirect (although I appreciate that a certain ship loan could be considered a considerable benefit already.)
My 2p that sort of turned into one-pound-20
Regards POS chain I echo the feelings above. If the chain makes no money, it seems a bit counterproductive to maintain it. I do appreciate, however, the advantage of our "mini-outposts" in the systems surrounding KDF/Tycho. A debate on options to make the hardware we have work better for the corp might be interesting. I guess the options are;
- Maintain it as it is. Watch Friz go mad
- Reduce to a minimum number of POSes to store ships and that at
- Get rid of them all. Conflict witht he ISS charter?
- Move them (or some of them) somewhere where they will make money.
I recall some pretty healthy predictions of how the POS chain would provide income for the corp, but I understand that each time we turn around, the bottom has fallen out of the market for which-ever product we've set up to produce. I would hazard that this is because of the flood of corps moving in around the catch area, led by the almost inconceivable improvement in the security situation there. We had W9 completely to ourselves only a few short months ago, afterall. I remember when it was all trees etc etc). I have demonstrated little interest in the past in the mechanics of the POSs or the markets they feed and, frankly, that's unlikely to change. I do, however, appreciate the effort that goes in from those that do have an interest in it and the frustration they are feeling at the brick wall they're bashing their head against at the moment (loads of work = no profit) is palpable.
In the end, I will support any decision made by the corp but would argue that at least a minimal POS setup is worth maintaining (even if this actually loses money, it can be paid fro with the taxes, as it facilitates the earning of them by acting as ratting and mining bases) and that perhaps it's time for us to move somewhere a bit wilder and sparsely populated.
As regards the Tycho deathstar, if we are unable to maintain it, I certainly think that ISS should be able to lend a hand, either with direct help or indirect (although I appreciate that a certain ship loan could be considered a considerable benefit already.)
My 2p that sort of turned into one-pound-20
I certainly would like there to be a corp tax. I can make about 100mil from ratting in a couple of days, and if 10mil of that is going to the corp, I'd certainly be happy. After all the corp needs to support itself, and if this is the only feasible means apart from moving the entire chain of POS, I'm all for it.
Got no problems with a tax.
Don't see the point in spending the time, resources and effort on the POS chain if it's not making a significant profit,but I would support the suggestion that we need to see what sort on income can be derived from tax plus other commercial activities before a final decision is made as to the POS future.
erm - that's it!
Don't see the point in spending the time, resources and effort on the POS chain if it's not making a significant profit,but I would support the suggestion that we need to see what sort on income can be derived from tax plus other commercial activities before a final decision is made as to the POS future.
erm - that's it!
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northwesten
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As I said ingame, I've always supported running one tower for ratting/mining if no one can be bothered to run the chain and I wouldnt mind a tax to pay for it.
I feel a bit guilty not helping out with the POS chain, especially with Friz having a dig at me for it all the time
But hauling isnt exactly the most fun thing in the world and I dont think the effort is worth it. I dont want to have to spend half my time online hauling stuff for the POS chain.
After all its a game and I pay for it to have fun so I want to do the things I enjoy, at least with a tax I can do the things I enjoy while helping support the corp.
I feel a bit guilty not helping out with the POS chain, especially with Friz having a dig at me for it all the time
But hauling isnt exactly the most fun thing in the world and I dont think the effort is worth it. I dont want to have to spend half my time online hauling stuff for the POS chain. After all its a game and I pay for it to have fun so I want to do the things I enjoy, at least with a tax I can do the things I enjoy while helping support the corp.
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centerededgedesign
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Hmmmm,
I don't know if it's because it's dead early in the morning.... but I have an idea of where this could go.... and it's STRATOSPHERICALLY AWESOME!
If the corp could get the cash together, we could get some BS or larger BPO's, and using our POS chain, build UBER ships. We of course would need a security contingent, and the support of ISS, but we could move well above the heads of many carebear corps.
Also, if we'd be taking any medium towers down, I'd suggest bunging one to Fw4p for our training POS, so we can toss up another lab, or maybe a small ship buildy thing. Just ideas.
Then there's the T2 market we could move into when we have bigger production in place to fund it. Oh, and since we have a POS forest just waiting for work, we could react most of the components we need....
/me goes to work to have these great ideas ground into mindless tasks.......
I don't know if it's because it's dead early in the morning.... but I have an idea of where this could go.... and it's STRATOSPHERICALLY AWESOME!
If the corp could get the cash together, we could get some BS or larger BPO's, and using our POS chain, build UBER ships. We of course would need a security contingent, and the support of ISS, but we could move well above the heads of many carebear corps.
Also, if we'd be taking any medium towers down, I'd suggest bunging one to Fw4p for our training POS, so we can toss up another lab, or maybe a small ship buildy thing. Just ideas.
Then there's the T2 market we could move into when we have bigger production in place to fund it. Oh, and since we have a POS forest just waiting for work, we could react most of the components we need....
/me goes to work to have these great ideas ground into mindless tasks.......
Sorry about last night Lee - I was a little short but as Fea knows all to well, I get like that when I'm struggling to make the corp work for you guys. Thing is though, just maintaining one POS for ratting isn't enough - if you remember we tried that when we first moved out and very nearly collapsed because of it. But you also need to pay office fees, logistics costs and make enough to buy all those shiny toys you want like BPOs, carriers, freighters and PvP ships. If we just ran the one POS, then anything big would have to come from donations thus hurting your own ability to buy nice shiny toys whereas we have always strived to make the corp pay for the big stuff. And just so you know where we all stand the corp owns approx 7 billion in assets in 0.0 - so we have been doing pretty well for ourselves but the isk is always reinvested.
Are we able to offline the moon harvesters, silos, reactors, etc and make significant savings in fuel consumption? Or are the defensive bits 99% of the fuel use anyway?
Edit:
OK, I went off to read anothe rpost and read this:
Edit:
OK, I went off to read anothe rpost and read this:
So I guess there is no benefit in offlining them. Ignore me.Just to asway any fears, Fernite Carbs are actually making a profit, just not a very big one.
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centerededgedesign
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Yesh, I think that logistically we're really coming closer to making the POS's much easier to use, thus, less work. As the POS's become less work, we have more time to dedicated to DS's, ratting, mining, which with a corp tax, are all profitable for the individuals participating, and the corp. (by mining, I mean an op where the proceeds are split, with the normal % to the corp). So, I guess I see a tax as giving us room to do more fun things, which equates into easier recruitment, which means more people having fun, which means bigger/funner things to do!
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Dolly Parton
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Anhamgrimmar
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Dolly Parton
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