Degree marks

Woo Elephant Yeah · Post by **Woo Elephant Yeah** » July 6th, 2006, 22:02

........or, you could leave school, apply for a job, save up shit loads of money, without having to take out a loan you won't pay off for at least 5 years, still afford to get hammered every weekend, buy a nice car, meet a lady who also works without student debts, spend all your money together, buy a house, and live happily ever after, by the time you would have just finished University if you went.

Sorry, but unless you want to be a Doctor, Vet, Lawyer etc... I really can't be convinced that University is a worthwhile expense of both time and money.

Post by **FatherJack** » July 6th, 2006, 22:21

Financially speaking, a student loan is the best rates and terms you will ever get.

Being a student is certainly something worth doing while you decide exactly what it is you want to be doing, or while you're finding that perfect lady to settle down with.

At the very least, you can find out what you would or wouldn't like to do full-time as you can try out different stuff with limited repercussions.

I'd recommend programmes with at least some vocational aspect, so that you do not become institutionalised, it's a major advantage to have real-world experience.

Unless you are incredibly lucky or successful in your career, your student days are probably when you are most "free". It is unlikely that at any other stage in your life you could (for example) just fuck off somewhere and do nothing for year, yet still return exactly where you left off without paucity.

Post by **Joose** » July 6th, 2006, 22:27

Woo Elephant Yeah wrote:........or, you could leave school, apply for a job, save up shit loads of money, without having to take out a loan you won't pay off for at least 5 years, still afford to get hammered every weekend, buy a nice car, meet a lady who also works without student debts, spend all your money together, buy a house, and live happily ever after, by the time you would have just finished University if you went.

Sorry, but unless you want to be a Doctor, Vet, Lawyer etc... I really can't be convinced that University is a worthwhile expense of both time and money.

Sorry to be so blunt, but: Balls.

Like...er...someone said earlier (too lazy to go back and look) theres some jobs were degree's really are not worth it. But theres a hell of a lot of jobs that are.

Take, for example, my sisters career:

She gets a job in Environmental Health in Guildford. She's quite the brainy one, and got reasonably well up "the ladder". Suddenly, she hit a wall. Yes, she had got to a reasonable pay pretty quick, but she couldnt get any further. Her collegues who were going on to much better jobs (one is now pushing the 6 figure mark in her job) only differed in the fact that they had relevant degrees. She had a degree, but it wasnt relevant.

So she fucked off the job, and has gone off to do a teaching course (teacher: another thing you cant do without University Qualifications nowadays).

Yes, degree's are not for everyone. But that *does not* mean they are for the elite few.

Post by **Roman Totale** » July 6th, 2006, 22:33

I'm inclined to agree with Woo here (edit: generally speaking, I'm sure there are lots of things other than doctor that it's worth going for). Although I went to Uni, it was only for 4 months (I really didn't like it).

When I left I got a job and worked hard. I now have a flat, no debts (other than a mortgage), a car and I'm in a managment position in a large financial company.

The same cannot be said of my mates who went to Uni. They have huge debts and the very few who managed to graduate trainee postitions in companies (they were all convinced they'd get one) aren't on any way near as much as they thought they would be. In fact one friend of mine upon leaving Uni said he wouldn't accept a job unless they paid him at least £18k. I laughed in his face. Last I heard he was sleeping on someone's sofa in London, working a shitty job but still thinking he's a student - you're 24 for fuck's sake! Funnily enough he did Business Studies at Uni.

I suppose I have a slightly tainted view of University because 1) I personally hated the place, and 2) my mates were all cunts who thought the world would be handed to them on a plate without having to do any work.

And also when I say "friends of mine", I actually mean people who I no longer talk to because University seemingly made them so retarded they forgot how to have a converstation.

That said, I do know a lot of jolly nice people who've been to University (ie, 5punkers. Well, some of them

)

edit 2: Actually this is probably just a bitter rant about people I used to know who became imbecilic gimps after uni

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » July 6th, 2006, 23:35

From someone who's not been to uni for "other*" reasons.

I can see the reasons to, and not to go to uni.

Personally, I know i could go to uni, if i fancied it and get a first in anything with very, very little effort on my part (and no cost*)

I also know that a lot of the people I know who went to uni either did something obscure enough to end up working in mcdonalds, something that was popular enough to end up saturated (often IT stuff) or something pretty much seen as worthless (Art-type stuff) and ended up with a related job right out of uni**

I also know some people who changed what course they were doing a few times (because they had their head up their own arse) and still ended up with a mediocre degree in something there's little real demand for and a debt well in the range of 10k.

I think it really comes down to people getting a degree they're willing and able to take a career in.

Getting a law degree and then going and working as an IT monkey is gonna get you nowhere.

* I'm pretty fucked physically, and have issues with buildings like unis, not to mention am incapable of navigating inside large buildings.

** In this case, my sister who did some art crap, got a job at a special needs charity place helping austistic people and mongs make art, which is sold to run the charity *AND* a job as a technician and part time lecturer at her uni, both paying rather fecking well.

Post by **ProfHawking** » July 7th, 2006, 0:07

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:I know i could go to uni, if i fancied it and get a first in anything with very, very little effort on my part

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:I'm pretty fucked physically, and have issues with buildings like unis, not to mention am incapable of navigating inside large buildings.

Woo Elephant Yeah · Post by **Woo Elephant Yeah** » July 7th, 2006, 7:17

Woo Elephant Yeah wrote:Sorry, but unless you want to be a Doctor, Vet, Lawyer etc... I really can't be convinced that University is a worthwhile expense of both time and money.

By the way Joose, this was a very big etc... sweeping statement, as I couldn't be assed to sit down and think of all the academic careers degree's are necessary.

I'm kind of with Roman on this, especially the way some (NOT ALL) students seem to isolate themselves from the rest of humanity.
Student loan rates are very good, but at the end of the day, you are taking out a loan at a very young age, without any real idea on the "value" of money.

If I took out a student loan at University, I'm sure I would of blew the lot away on booze and high tech gadgets, and I'd of got myself in a right sticky situation.

Oh yeah, the other reason I didn't go to University...... I hate Pot Noodle

Post by **Dog Pants** » July 7th, 2006, 7:26

I have to agree that I can't think of any of my mates who made any use of a degree, and that includes myself. I'm not saying there's no advantage to it, but it's nothing like a guarantee of a good job.

I have two mates who did computer related degrees at uni. One is unemployed after a couple of unproductive years as a webmonkey. The other is doing quite well as a carer (sort of like one of those big psychiatric nurse blokes).

I'm lucky in that I've got a pretty general qualification in the field I work in, however it hasn't done me any good yet as I could have got this job with GCSEs. In theory I could have got a commission as an engineering officer with my degree, but I'm not a very military person and neither myself or Flight Lieutenant who interviewed me thought I'd suit it.

All things considered though, when I leave the RAF (probably in about 5 years) I'll have a useful degree and 12 years of very varied technical experience and training, plus the benefits a military backround bring (employers see you as trustworthy and dependable).

The point is that even though I've not had any use for it yet it's something that'll stand out to an employer. It's worth taking a decent subject that involves some work and that is relevant to areas you're good at as that's the field you'll gravitate to when you're looking for employment. That way at the least it won't put you behind other job candidates and at best it'll make you stand out above them.

randomgazz · Post by **randomgazz** » July 7th, 2006, 8:55

I chose my course due to it being something I can enjoy doing and the shortage of graduates going into the industry means I am pretty much guaranteed a job. As an added bonus I was able to get sponsorship giving me cash, help with my course and summer and placement year jobs.

Post by **Joose** » July 7th, 2006, 9:24

Woo Elephant Yeah wrote: I'm kind of with Roman on this, especially the way some (NOT ALL) students seem to isolate themselves from the rest of humanity.

Ive got to say, I think you're probably both taking a bit of a biased view on this one. I know a great many people of my age who did not go to uni, as well as a load of people who did (and people who went, then left due to it being very much not for them). The cupcake/nice person ratio is pretty much even across the board. Yes, I do know of some student types who act exactly like you say. But ive also seen a lot people who work in local government who act like that. And people who work in schools. And people who doss about with no job.

Basically, I dont think going to uni has any magic "cuntifying" effects. Cunts are cunts, whatever they do.

eion · Post by **eion** » July 7th, 2006, 9:50

The way I see it is this - having a degree is not going to hurt your chances of getting a particular job, all other things being equal. Of course, the real world experience you might forego by going to Uni can be more valuable than the degree you receive in the end.
If you want a really high-paying job, then going to Uni is more or less a necessity IMO.

The student debt thing is really a non-issue in the UK - the terms are extremely favourable, and the amounts really aren't that large in the general scheme of things.

Saying that going to University magically turns people into cunts sounds to me like an inferiority complex

(of course, I'll be starting my third degree in September)

Edit: I got a Desmond for my first degree (B.Eng. in computer science), and a 3.18 GPA for my second degree (Juris Doctorate, i.e. US law degree). Next up is a Master of Laws.

mrbobbins · Post by **mrbobbins** » July 7th, 2006, 10:14

mrbobbins wrote:And whether experience or qualifications are more important depends on the job/industry.

This

Also this thread seems like:

I went to Uni, I liked it, it was important to my career, you should go.

I didn't go to Uni, I didn't need to, it wasn't important to my career, you shouldn't go.

friznit · Post by **friznit** » July 7th, 2006, 11:00

Fuck it. It was a laugh. I got drunk a lot, had sex for the first time and made some life long friends. Wouldn't have missed it for the world.

Also, got a 2:1 and have a well paid job for which a degree, although not entirely neccessary, certainly gives you a big advantage.

Post by **Joose** » July 7th, 2006, 11:47

mrbobbins wrote: I went to Uni, I liked it, it was important to my career, you should go.

I didn't go to Uni, I didn't need to, it wasn't important to my career, you shouldn't go.

this

You want to find people who are doing the job you want to do, and ask them.

friznit wrote:I got drunk a lot, had sex for the first time and made some life long friends. Wouldn't have missed it for the world.

and this.

I cant imagine many other situations where you can spend 3 weeks alternating between asleep and shitfaced without it causing you serious problems (beyond mild medical dificulties and occasionally waking up somewhere completely random, with someone completely random).

eion · Post by **eion** » July 7th, 2006, 12:46

Joose wrote: You want to find people who are doing the job you want to do, and ask them.

Bearing in mind that your ideas about what you want to do may change dramatically. The plans I had for my career in sixth form were very different to how things have worked out.

mrbobbins · Post by **mrbobbins** » July 7th, 2006, 12:49

eion wrote: Bearing in mind that your ideas about what you want to do may change dramatically. The plans I had for my career in sixth form were very different to how things have worked out.

But you can't plan for the unknown!. Unless you are Dr. Who. Who has a time machine. But still doesn't plan for the unknown. Or go back in time to stop bad things happening that he didn't plan for.

eion · Post by **eion** » July 7th, 2006, 13:35

mrbobbins wrote:But you can't plan for the unknown!. Unless you are Dr. Who. Who has a time machine. But still doesn't plan for the unknown. Or go back in time to stop bad things happening that he didn't plan for.

Dr. Who also has the Daleks and the Cybermen as mortal enemies though, so it's all a wash.

More seriously, what I mean is plan with flexibility and don't lock yourself into anything too early.

friznit · Post by **friznit** » July 7th, 2006, 14:19

eion wrote: More seriously, what I mean is plan with flexibility and don't lock yourself into anything too early.

Like your car for instance. Now how the fuck did I manage that?

Woo Elephant Yeah · Post by **Woo Elephant Yeah** » July 7th, 2006, 15:13

Woah! I didn't say all students are cunts.

I merely meant that a lot of them live in a bubble for a number of years without taking the real world into consideration until they leave.

My best mate (best man at the wedding) who I get along with extremely well was a student, and I knew a lot of his student friends who were all really good fun.

They just had a somewhat rose tinted view of things, especially money, and this is one of the reasons by mate left, and started on the job learning instead, and has done really well for himself.

Anyway's I am quite a biased person when I state my opinion, and it's one of the things I ahte most about myself, but unfortunately I'm not too good at getting my point across in text without insulting someone or something, as I tend to think aloud when writing stuff.

Ooooh look boobies

*cough* "ahem"

So yeah, I have the upmost respect for people who continue their education in University, as I really wouldn't be able to do it, because I have never found learning anything to be very interesting.

My mind set is more one where you pick stuff up as you do it, not studying books and trying to remember pieces of text in an exam.

I had rubbish exam results considering I was in the top class of everything at GCSE, but I just couldn't motivate myself to learn, especially in my own time, which is a big deal when going to University.

I guess I'm quite an easy to please person when it comes to life, as I never have huge ambitions, and a desire for knowledge, as long as I get a few holidays a year, spend time with the family whenever I want to without havign to worry about work, don't have to ask for anything off of anyone, then I'm happy.

Sometimes it really bugs me, as I know if I could be bothered to motivate myself, I could have done really well academically, but learnign just didn't interest me. My mind is too busy day dreaming and constantly thinking of ideas too worry abotu learnign things

EDIT : Fuck me I have fat fingers

friznit · Post by **friznit** » July 7th, 2006, 15:30

Woo Elephant Yeah wrote: Fuck me I have fat fingers

Is that a demand, or a statement?