DOTA2 Skillgap solution

[Wifeyberk]

Isn't Dota meant to be frustrating?

I know I lose my temper all the time, this is a mix between me absolutely being shit at it, and not really trying. I only know one character well enough to not get completely trounced each and every time I play (this being blooseeker, who someone, namely FAB stole off me yesterday).

I think that is all got heated and Pants has the right idea. You're never going to totally bridge any skill gap. Mainly because players like me have none, and players like bits can walk into a char they've never played and be awesome at it.

Saying to people that they can't hit so-and-so until level 10 or something is just silly, because we all need to play and die accordingly, in order to learn more than anything. You can't really say everyone random because I'd die every single time. I've tried it. So I do like to play Bloodseeker. I see where you're coming from in the respect that Berk controlling sniper is rather mean because he just pwns everything in sight. But I accept that he'd been messing about with a build against bots and wanted to test it out against real people. I, personally, am awesome on Bloodseeker against bots. But when it comes to actual people, I'm like the squishiest thing known to humanity. I didn't know there was a rule to not random or random dependent on who was online. I'm sorry that you don't get on with Dota, Pnut. It can be quite fun when the group and stuff is right.

Lastly. I want to put a complaint in to management! FAB STOLE MY CHARACTER! I want him banned like, forever or something. Or at the very least, tortured.

[Dog Pants]

There's no rules about whether or not to random, it was just suggested that if you feel confident enough in your game then that's how we generally prefer to play, and if not then you can give yourself an advantage by not doing.

[fabyak]

Lastly. I want to put a complaint in to management! FAB STOLE MY CHARACTER! I want him banned like, forever or something. Or at the very least, tortured.

In my defence I hit random and that's what it gave me! So it's Dota's fault... DOTA IS DOTA N00B. IT SHOULD UNINSTALL... ITSELF RITE?

[Wifeyberk]

Yes! Uninstall it and I might not be dead all the time!

[Anery]

...I cant actually remember the last time I enjoyed playing a round of this. I have tried over the past year or so but I just don't seem to be able to get to grips with it. To be honest this game has me losing my temper more than any other game

Likewise, I uninstalled some time ago, not because I am particularly bad (I'm pretty average I think?) but because it made me feel like bad. A good game was "meh" a bad game made me feel like shit - FOR 45 MINUTES!

Isn't Dota meant to be frustrating?

I know I lose my temper all the time, this is a mix between me absolutely being shit at it, and not really trying.

Problem for me (and I suspect others might be the same) was that I was shit and I WAS trying. It's nobodys fault, the game is what it is.
I wasn't learning, I was just dying a lot and not really understanding why. I couldn't read the game, couldn't tell you the abilities of the character facing off against me, couldn't even operate the donkey past "go get my stuff from the spawn shop". So yeah, 45 minutes of that is fucking awful.

I watched Free to Play last weekend, and whilst I enjoyed it (cements me belief that 99% "pro" gamers have little grasp on reality) it does point out the level of knowledge expected by Valve in order to play the game. Case in point, during the final Dendi picked a character he was strong with and the commentators are in shock "...EVERYONE knows how to counter wobblefuckbeast"...err...nope, don't know how to play it let alone play against it.

TLDR: Games last too long, required level of knowledge to be proficient too high, high frustration levels = sad bunny.

[Dog Pants]

Heroes of the Storm might be the remedy to this. Simpler and faster.

[Anery]

Heroes of the Storm might be the remedy to this. Simpler and faster.

I didn't want to say that but yeah, now it's been said I do think that Heroes of the Storm will get rid of most of these problems and be better for 5punky 5henanigans

[Joose]

Heroes of the Storm might be the remedy to this. Simpler and faster.

The more I read about it the more I think that might be the case. Its simpler without being *too* simple (like I think they have done with Hearthstone). Things like team levelling will help make it a bit more 5punk friendly too I think.

[Dog Pants]

Watching the pros play has brought me to the conclusion that the way we all random is actually a terrible way to learn the game. It's a good way of getting exposure to new characters, but it's more likely than not to put you in direct competition with your own team. Without a defined role all you're learning to do is spam your skills, you don't pick up any of the basic tactics - carries last-hitting, supports denying, main carry vs offlane, donkey courtesy - and when everyone randoms not only do you not get a balanced set of roles, but you might not even know what your role is. A game with four carries all piling in is not only bad tactics, but the less experienced players are going to be starved of gold by the more experienced players and battered constantly.

A better way of choosing, in my opinion, is to either let the people who want to random go first and the rest of us pick around them, or let the less experienced players go first either random or picked and the more experienced fill the other roles. You can still random to an extent by filtering by role and spinning, you just won't get the starting gold bonus (which is okay for more experienced players anyway).

This isn't to say we should be dictating what everyone plays, but what we're doing at the moment is like randoming your character in TF2 and everyone getting Pyro.

[Roman Totale]

I love support characters so I'm more than happy to do that whilst others do the more action focused stuff. I reckon in future I'll wait until everyone else has picked and then go with something that will compliment the team.

[Dog Pants]

That worked out pretty well last night. It kind of developed into a natural flow where some people randomed straight away, others picked something from a role they wanted, and the more confident players hung back and filled in the gaps. We had some pretty good games, nobody was too unhappy with their hero, and I think we all played a better game. I felt I played a more productive support, at least for the earlier games before I finished my beer. Afterwards I started to forget to deny and ward and just sort of lingered around watching my carry.