BWL calls 'HIM' out

centerededgedesign · Post by **centerededgedesign** » August 28th, 2007, 1:57

Deren wrote:*None of this will goto EVE-O from us anyway shape or form this is purely an internal post. If asked we will just say we decided to take the corp in a different direction.*

This won't come as a surprise to some, but perhaps to others, but the Black Watch Legionnaires will be leaving Betrayal Under Mayhem.

Many factors contributed to this decision and it was not an easy one but one that was necessary to preserve the future of our corporation.

We were very excited to join BUM and we were enthusiastic about what we could accomplish and what we would be able to be a part of. Shortly before joining RIVE pulled out leaving us as the only NA TZ corp of any size in/joining the Alliance, but we didn't think it would be a problem at the time and we moved forward and joined BUM.

After entering BUM it became apparent that there was a significant difference in culture and structure versus our expectations. I won't go into extensive detail about this but suffice it to say these concerns were sufficient to cause concern among our corporation's leadership and among our members to the point where our corporation's future was in doubt. At that point we decided to leave the alliance after the Sylph takedown.

We've certainly voiced our frustration over the Slammer's deal, one most everyone seems to regret. But the biggest reason we are leaving is Butter Dog.

Its not as if we were unware that Butter Dog was a forum douche before we joined, but we didn't expect him to treat his alliance mates as he treats strangers on EVE-O.

BWL has a sense of humour and we make liberal use of it in our conversations. However, what we don't tolerate is 'drama' and 'abusive comments' from one corpmate to another and we've kicked people out for such behaviour. We had no desire to be part of an organization that tolerates such individuals and fosters that kind of culture.

We're aware you think we're immature - we're aware you think we have a different sense of humour. You'll be happy to know that no one in BWL is under 20, many have post-graduate degrees and run (or are involved with the running in very senior capacities) of companies exceeding several billion dollars in net worth.

What you should know is that no one's behaviour in any MMO in any organization I've ever been associated with has actually caused me to lose my temper like my dealing with you Butter. I'm the corp's ambassador for a reason as I normally have a cool head in dealing with people and my RL job/background aligns with the duties of someone tasked with these sorts of in-game responsibilities. But your conduct and how you act and treat those around you is utterly reprehensible.

Our decision to 'stay on our own' vent server is because
A) The voice quality is better
B) All of us lag out when we connect to your TS server (not sure why)
C) No one is on that TS server in our timezone anyways and we have many allies we fly with who make use of our vent server (including ENH) on joint OPs.

Regarding integration - you're right we never integrated. As I mentioned earlier, we had hoped that having RIVE join at the same time would've facilitated that bonding / integration experience but without a NA playerbase and with the abrasive culture in BUM - that integration never happened.

BUM is Neutral after our departure, which means you won't be fired upon in joint ops with common friendlies.

For those curious what I'm responding to I've included Butter's relevant post to the Hobo's Corp Forums.

Sincerely,

Deren Thaldrel

butter_dog wrote:This won't really effect us.

Its very true to say that US/European sense of humours are VERY different on occasion. I found them dry and dull, narf, but also strangely immature on occasion. They were also very insular and made no real attempt to integrate with the alliance (including refusing the move off their own voice server).

The whole Slammers thing was a monumental fuck up, to be honest. Our fuck up. 2bn ISK is a joke. We didnt get their consent but were being blinded by the lack of ISK for our proposed assualt on IS-R.

Anyway, I was thinking... is 24 coverage a realistic goal? We're so EU centric I think maybe we should play to our strength in this respect. All our key FC's and decision makers are EU, 95% of our players are EU... its natural that a US based corp will be isolated in those circumstances. To me, we should play to that strength.
P.S. We really appreciate the lack of discretion exercised by some of the individuals who knew about our departure before we left.

How shall we go about bringing up how the alliance deals with unwelcome corp's/individuals?

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » August 28th, 2007, 4:59

by

bomberesque wrote:...posting a poll that says "we think it has all gone too far. Should BD stay or go?"

still kidding (kinda sorta)

Miro Mishu · Post by **Miro Mishu** » August 28th, 2007, 5:14

Scratch one awesome diplomat and all around good guy.
Scratch one PVP compatent highly active NA TZ corp.

But we still have the good ol' BD.

I've never tussled with him, but I know when to cut my losses... No witchhunt (yet) but when do you say enough is enough?

traveyb · Post by **traveyb** » August 28th, 2007, 8:37

narf, BWL should have raised there concerns with the alliance management team. You cant expect problems to be fixed if know one knows!
I find it very rude what they have done.

traveyb · Post by **traveyb** » August 28th, 2007, 8:45

Heh Algey summed it up for me:

Algey wrote:Hehe, boohoo, we've been reading a private forum that we shouldn't have and are offended.

We wanted to be able to continue making inuendo and cryptic "this won't affect BWL" remarks in alliance and the mean people have talked to some of their members.

Also you've now posted a highly edited version of why you are leaving to deliberately target Butter Dog.

What a good way to leave an alliance. Cheero BWL.

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » August 28th, 2007, 8:53

Certainly they may have had a better chance to get an acceptable outcome had they aired their concerns rather than just pulling the plug (and I'm only asuming that they didn't air their concerns, as I don't have access to the areas that such conversations would take place) However, look at the past and I think it's clear that BD is protected from on high. It's not like he's changed.

To say this though;

traveyb wrote:You cant expect problems to be fixed if know one knows!

I think is unfair to them; "wha, BD is rude and demonstrates an autistic lack of empathy when speaking his mind? Really? Blimey, I'd never noticed"

That said, I generally trust Algey's statements, although I've never seen him be quite that unsympathetic before....

Sapphrine · Post by **Sapphrine** » August 28th, 2007, 8:59

algey protects butter. simple as.

I'd argue with butter but i have to go out today and do stuff. I will say i don't quite believe he thinks he can just claim he's made of gold when half their frigging evidence is in the damn thread.

Also, given the intel he passed from the restricted forum to the main forum in drips and drabs all the time claiming that nothing should be kept hidden i'm sightly annoyed that his argument now is that it was a private forum for wedie to just speak there mind! Not 3 days ago he was saying all corps should be more like wedie and post more to the alliance forum.

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » August 28th, 2007, 9:02

algey is Butter's alt

or the other way round

/tinfoil hat

friznit · Post by **friznit** » August 28th, 2007, 9:17

Oh hell, enough of the BD crap. Can we keep it to the Alliance forum please? (small hope

)

Yeah, we all know who he is and how he winds people up the wrong way. Don't over dramatise it though and for god's sake don't think it affects anything we do in game. BWL had myriad reasons to leave, but most of all because they simply did not fit well in our alliance. A lot of the BD bashing is simply an added excuse.

Just chill and grab the popcorn. And there's a very healthy discussion on the merits of keeping BD vs kicking him in the CEO channels (mostly in the form of a PM tirade

). Quite rightly though, Algey will not be blackmailed over one of his corp members and narf, I'd do exactly the same in his position.

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » August 28th, 2007, 9:33

Bah, you're no fun

I was actually keeping away from the alliance forum for fear of getting drawn into something that

a. would never be constructive
b. doesn't really matter (in the grand scheme of "it's a game")
and c. might end up with me (or us) as BD's next target. Bravado aside, I really don't want to be there, thanky

Anyway, if BD has the right to bitch about BWF on his own "private" corp forum, why shouldn't we? Frankly I see it as a way to let off steam with out fuelling the fire. But nvm, I'll shut up now (well, till after lunch at least

)

traveyb · Post by **traveyb** » August 28th, 2007, 9:33

^^ What Friz said

amblin · Post by **amblin** » August 28th, 2007, 9:57

Sapphrine · Post by **Sapphrine** » August 28th, 2007, 10:13

/me bums and goes back to writing up his cv

traveyb · Post by **traveyb** » August 28th, 2007, 10:13

/me faints

fea!!

Sapphrine · Post by **Sapphrine** » August 28th, 2007, 11:01

sorry but fuck that.

Fear · Post by **Fear** » August 28th, 2007, 11:06

Miro Mishu wrote:Scratch one awesome diplomat and all around good guy.
Scratch one PVP compatent highly active NA TZ corp.

But we still have the good ol' BD.

Can we go make an alliance with BWL Lyrus MadBombers and ASGP please?

friznit · Post by **friznit** » August 28th, 2007, 11:18

FYI. I have formally expressed my concerns about BD in the CEO forum on behalf of our corp, and explained our reasons. I have recommended that he be suspended from the Alliance until further notice and have all forum access removed.

I just can't believe this is happening. Again.

Akiakaiu · Post by **Akiakaiu** » August 28th, 2007, 11:27

Posting in an epic thread.

Xennith · Post by **Xennith** » August 28th, 2007, 11:30

shame, i liked the BWL guys, thought they were very competant and lots of fun.

eRabbit · Post by **eRabbit** » August 28th, 2007, 11:51

Lol, BD moans about baseless accusations and then uses some VERY poorly made lies about the capabilites of phpbb2 to try and accuse Sapph. Thankfully Fear was there to call bullshit on BD's desperate attempt to lie about forum software before the post was locked