Someone walked over my grave....

Anhamgrimmar · Post by **Anhamgrimmar** » August 26th, 2007, 21:36

Well, thats what it felt like when i read the first couple of lines in this post on the alliance forums....

http://thelittlesthobo.eamped.com/topic1045.html

centerededgedesign · Post by **centerededgedesign** » August 27th, 2007, 0:58

GAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

The very person that undermines authority talking about leadership. Ugh.

So many 'things' I feel like saying, but none of them are helpful.
[/u]

Sapphrine · Post by **Sapphrine** » August 27th, 2007, 4:14

I believe i'm keeping my posts constructive. If at any point anyone feels that they aren't, please say and i'll stop.

It is taking a fair bit of restraint to not just point out obvious double standards being demonstrated but I think that a civil approach may actually yield some beneficial results for the alliance as a whole.

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » August 27th, 2007, 9:39

rather than posting a poll that says "we think it has all gone too far. Should BD stay or go?"

kidding.... (sorta)

I have little investive in the situation atm as I've been afk for a couple of months, but seeing the potential in PB from joining the mining op for all of about 5 strip miner cycles on Sunday before being "ripped away" to watch Wales vs France (what a dream that match was

) with the missus I shall be putting some effort in there. Once I have the iskies, I will be flyiong PvP as much as RL allows. Mission running is driving me nuts (I don't know how you do it Dolly)

For one, I think the posting there so far (well as of last night at least) is pretty constructive and avoiding another internet fight.

Thank heaven BD clearly states that he wouldn't agree to be alliance leader. Oh, hold on.

friznit · Post by **friznit** » August 27th, 2007, 10:57

It may be hard to set aside our differences and see through to the real issues. Also, possibly the most frustrating thing is that Butter Dog is actually right 90% of the time. How he goes about it stating his point, and that he never comes up with any solutions, but takes great delight in pointing out where their are problems, is what causes the friction.

Be that as it may, there may (or may not) be a leadership issue to resolve. If we want this alliance to go forward then resolve it we must. Steamy was (is) a great ideas man, but he didn't actually lead the alliance per se, he just pointed us in a particular direction and let us find our way. But then that's what people wanted. I personally felt we always needed some firmer guidance to prevent us floundering about for weeks between each op, which we seem do consistently whenever we run out of ideas.

Now the crunchy bit. This once again leaves us two options as a corp. We either stick it out, resolve the issues and make this alliance worth it, or we give up and find somewhere else to go (losing NR as well don't forget).

Personally I'm in favour of sticking it out, at least for the immediate future. I'm prepared to give BD only one more chance though.

Sapphrine · Post by **Sapphrine** » August 27th, 2007, 11:37

I think it is worth discussing with Steamy how independent NR is from WEDIE / BUM. I think he was planning to retain a semblance of control over there and I suspect it isn't something he'll be keeping solely within BUM if people start to move out but its something which needs confirming i'd say.

eRabbit · Post by **eRabbit** » August 27th, 2007, 12:02

Stick it out, however in 2 and a half weeks I'm off so my opinion should be ignored

Dolly Parton · Post by **Dolly Parton** » August 27th, 2007, 13:10

The topic is really straight forward. There is a lot of bias towards BD right now and has been since ISS and maybe before. This is part of the package you get with BD. Now I won't say BD is right 90% of time like Friz but I will say he at least is willing to say the things some think but wouldn't say due to hurt feelings. I honestly have never seen him in local and never chatted with the man before so I piece a lot together from forums (least reliable source) and you guys in casual conversation. So I see it as 2 options:

1) Kick him out but tell him why first.
or
2) Take the good with the bad and let BD be BD.

Either way please sum this discussion up quick its been going on since ISS and its really starting to get old.

eRabbit · Post by **eRabbit** » August 27th, 2007, 13:16

I don't remember there being a BD discussion at all apart from some private flaming after he pulled his stunt on the forums.

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » August 27th, 2007, 13:49

Dolly Parton wrote: its been going on since ISS and its really starting to get old.

This pony's nothing like dead yet, we can flog it some more

Don't take me too seriously, BD has been part of teh landscape for ages and I'm, for one, well able to ignore him by now (except when he's mean and makes me

)

For sure we shouldn't make a critical decision like alliance membership contingent on one personality clash anyways. Think of all the cool dudes in the alliance and the irritation of BD (and Lilan) fades quickly

friznit · Post by **friznit** » August 27th, 2007, 14:57

I suppose I could frame it another way. All things together, are people generally happy with what we're getting out of the corp/alliance/eve at the moment? I am, notwithstanding that we've had a slow period lately since the UCE thing finished, due in part to preparation for a huge assault that never happened due to reasons beyond our control. But:

- Plenty of PvP to be had, solo, small gang or fleet and on our own terms
- We're free to war dec, NAP, smack, encourage, be evil or be good and we have noone to answer to but ourselves
- We have the best carebearing areas in game
- We have direct input into what the alliance does and can influence events
- So far we've caused the collapse of one Alliance (UCE), caused another to POS spam in mass paranoia costing them billions (Sylph) and madea third publicly acknowledge that we rock and pay us 1bill isk for the privilege (Slammer's)

And things are set to only get better. Couldn't ask for much more narf! :D

Miro Mishu · Post by **Miro Mishu** » August 27th, 2007, 16:38

Congrats Sapph, you're the new target for BD to counter-point every post on.. (it fuels him).

Don't let him get you rilled up :p

Dolly Parton · Post by **Dolly Parton** » August 27th, 2007, 17:51

friz if your happy i'm happy so lets keep with it

Sapphrine · Post by **Sapphrine** » August 27th, 2007, 17:55

Miro Mishu wrote:Congrats Sapph, you're the new target for BD to counter-point every post on.. (it fuels him).

Don't let him get you rilled up :p

its my current distraction as i get this piece of work in. So long as he keeps civil its actually not too bad.

Some of the crap he's put up on the wedie board irritates me but i'm pretending i can't still see it atm.

glad steamy has said we can keep NR as is.

eRabbit · Post by **eRabbit** » August 27th, 2007, 18:05

Sapphrine wrote:Some of the crap he's put up on the wedie board irritates me but i'm pretending i can't still see it atm.

Such as?

Fear · Post by **Fear** » August 27th, 2007, 18:06

I would imagine Steamy did MC as much of a favour as he did BUM. I'd expect it to be in MC's interest to keep as many 'friendlies' mining for them as the can.

Sapphrine · Post by **Sapphrine** » August 27th, 2007, 18:26

eRabbit wrote:
Such as?

if i leave it as butter at his finest that gives you the general gist and means i'm not x-posting from a private forum i shouldn't still have access to. (when is davik back anyway?!

edit: or alternatively what deren just lobbed up on the alliance forum