5punk

Fear wrote:I'd much rather see the money divided out between players and then they can do what they want with it on their own. But I am pleased we agree that there is no need for the corp to hoard money beyond its running costs as it sits there doing nothing. Of course a little for a rainy day is a good idea - but we have enough wealth in the player base to soon re-raise isk for purchases such as a POS, or perhaps one day belt rental again. And assets not in use can be liquidised as there is no such thing as second hand goods or devaluation in eve.

This would go someway to removing the them-and-us feeling which I sense (and I know of some others that do too). You would no longer need to protect assets of 5punk as much from the eventuality of an unscrupulous player. If I am honest I don't feel all that welcome in 5punk - not like I used to anyway - it seems I am not even trusted to take a corp badger or just see the size of the corp wallet. It was much more spunky before when the players had the isk and most of the assets and the corp felt more like a group of peers having fun (with minimum security for things such as POS roles which is just prudent). I just ended up fucking off to Taru to do my own thing or playing other multiplayer games with bearded 5punkers. I don't feel like contributing to a corp where I am treated like a mere minion and which has little transparency (don't confuse this with not wanting to help people out - I'd much rather mine/mission to help a person afford a new ship than for the corp to have 'just because')

Oh dear I seem to have gone off on one again, but it's off my chest now. I am a big advocate of empowering people and transparency, that's all.

Written stuffs can be easily taken out of context, so please see this in the friendly manner it is intended - or I'll rabble with whoever on vent or something.

Edit for clarity: In ^ I refer to the corp as the in-game entity, wallet and hangers and other related functions and the seemingly more apparent hierarchy, not the collective sum of its members.

The thing is Fear, 5punkorp changed a lot during the war, we went from a group of mostly carebears with pvp interests to produce some pretty mighty 5punkfleets, then there were spies in ISS that everyone trusted and things started getting a bit paranoid. We didn't need access to things so we didn't get access, it was the way to ensure the corps survival during some really fucking tough months. But since we're in empire now, I do kinda see your point, security wise I think we're still in the ISS at war state of mind.

I can see your point Rabbit, it was probably needed to some extent then as the corp had POSs playing a key role. But now that is not the case, the corp has bills of at the very most 1mil/month (a guess on rental as I can't even see that bit).

The corp should be a way of sharing and helping each other, instead it just seems to hoard, dictate and deny access for no real reason.

The 5% tax seem unnecessary also (not that it truly effects me - but people who don't have 10mil to their name it must irritate - I wouldn't be surprised if the corp had more ISK than the sum of its members' wallets.)

But again I wouldn't mind 50% tax if I knew what it was going towards and the majority agreed it was a good thing. The corp to me is just a black hole and I get an angry response or ignored if I ever enquire.

i am at work and eating breakfast so i may miss something. security wise i feel it should be like this.

Secure section - bpos/pos
Ores/Minerals - just what it says

the rest should be open to 5punkers MOD EDIT. Just don't. sorry i was in mid chew on my bacon and egg sandwich and got irked for some reason

once POS is set up in 0.0 in future this would have to be readdressed.

k i had to say that but fear you know me thats not me. since we're not paying alliance dues and such lose the corp tax.

the money in wallet now will NOT be split up amongst people. this internal workshop sounds good use for the money. (reason why I say not split up is go ahead and figure out a % for each member, does a new member less than a week get the same % share as someone who has busted their ass for the corp for 6mth to a year)

dp

ps

fear is right on the vibe of 5punkdom, he is not the only one that is feeling this way, i will not name names but they are out there. i am not one

pss

corp will help everyone out, but you got to take the initiative to help yourself. nothing is handed out for free.

Fear wrote:I can see your point Rabbit, it was probably needed to some extent then as the corp had POSs playing a key role. But now that is not the case, the corp has bills of at the very most 1mil/month (a guess on rental as I can't even see that bit).

The corp should be a way of sharing and helping each other, instead it just seems to hoard, dictate and deny access for no real reason.

The 5% tax seem unnecessary also (not that it truly effects me - but people who don't have 10mil to their name it must irritate - I wouldn't be surprised if the corp had more ISK than the sum of its members' wallets.)

But again I wouldn't mind 50% tax if I knew what it was going towards and the majority agreed it was a good thing. The corp to me is just a black hole and I get an angry response or ignored if I ever enquire.

we hear you fear but hear this and take this in a peer to peer way cause this is where it is coming from. we got the point on the corp wallet and access to it. drop it cause its starting to come off greedy and that u want the isk that up until recently didn't help to get.

this is for all the new guys and the guys returning. give us a little bit of time. 5punk is in a reflecting what do we do point and we're only starting to get things moving again. everyone will enjoy what we're going to do which is why we vote on what the corp is going to do.

i make this statement give us 2 weeks for the love of eve gods. we just moved back to empire, figuring out what the corp is to do, how can corp mates get ships for FREE <- hello do other corps build BS and BC for corp mates that are not in war. guys you now us we're going to do what we can for everyone cause thats what we do. please do not demand something over and over bring it up, we discuss or we get it done.

now everything i said is my views not the management of corp or the corp but i can tell that if this keeps up people are going to be at each other and thats going to cause more problems. we will address the exclusion issue and i can say more but i would rather see what others have to say.

oh by the way friz like the idea gets my vote

timeline on what we've done so far

left iss and moved back to empire - this basically was the 2nd move in less than a month - making people who have no ships, ships - opened 3 new offices - fru, elgoi and tri for mining, missions and low security carrier access - opening lab pos this weekend under "5punk R&D" a new wing of 5punk

we are moving a long and everything will be addressed but it will be slightly longer than the snap of your finger. use the horse and be patient and good things will come for all

The dividing out would be a problem sure - no idea how you figure that out should you want to (I hindsight it's a bad suggestion for that reason) - perhaps the initiatives give out grants rather than loans.

Just to be clear - I don't expect anything - and I stake no claim to any of 5punks current assets, not even 1 isk of corp funds. I don't even use corp ammo. I dont want to spend corp isk, but it would be nice to see what it is being spent on. I don't need any haulers or shuttles, but it would be nice if the need arose to just borrow a corp one, etc, etc.

Fear wrote: But again I wouldn't mind 50% tax if I knew what it was going towards and the majority agreed it was a good thing. The corp to me is just a black hole and I get an angry response or ignored if I ever enquire.

I'm sorry if you do. I don't recall you ever enquiring though. Btw, if think the corp isn't trying to help people, read the OP on this thread. If you think things are transparent, read some of the very very long sitreps I wrote. I've tried at every opportunity to keep corp members involved in what's going on and give everyone a say in what we're doing.

On security, you simply can't go around giving everyone in the corp 100% access to everything, however much you think you trust them. There are so many stories in Eve of when it goes wrong and it would break my heart to have this happen to 5punkorp. As it is, the security rules are very lax (believe me, they are compared to alot of other 40+ corps - we don't even lock down our BPOs). We have a much less hierachical structure than we used to and anyone who wants to do stuff with corp assets gets all the roles they need. It's just plain sense.

If you want to help out Fear you only have to say. I'd welcome the assistance narf, as it'd give me more time to have fun playing the game for myself. But please say so, rather than dumping what I can only read as hurtful snipes at the way I try to run the corp for you guys on a thread that was designed to provide a little transparency and inclusiveness in corp business.

Fear wrote:The dividing out would be a problem sure - no idea how you figure that out should you want to (I hindsight it's a bad suggestion for that reason) - perhaps the initiatives give out grants rather than loans.

Just to be clear - I want nor expect nothing. I don't even use corp ammo. I dont want to spend corp isk, but it would be nice to see what it is being spent on. I don't need any haulers or shuttles, but it would be nice if the need arose to just borrow a corp one, etc, etc.

I'll reiterate what's been said numerous times to all members of 5punkorp. Ammo and Loot are free for all. Ships and Skills are free for any new members after a a 2 week trial period. Ore & Minerals, BPO's and POS Stuff are not general access because they hold a fuck load of corp assets. However, anyone who is a miner, refiner, builder, trader or POS manager gets automatic access to the relevent hangars and roles. This actually covers a good proportion of the corp anyway. If you want to see The 5punkbank, as I said on the OP about that you can have an alt join the corp. If you're really that interested in the 5punkcorp wallet then you can ask for access too, but I never considered it to be very exciting and until now noones asked.

Can someone split this discussion into a separate thread so we can keep the Projects thread clean? I'd do it myself by I'm afraid I'll get accused of abusing my dictatorial powers or something

amblin wrote:I'll stop and await the next question.

What's for tea?

friznit wrote:But please say so, rather than dumping what I can only read as hurtful snipes at the way I try to run the corp for you guys on a thread that was designed to provide a little transparency and inclusiveness in corp business.

My apologies Friz, I meant no hurt. All I'm really after is query access to everything and take access to what I may need (Incidentally you might want to lock away some of the skill books if you open up Skills and Ships - one or two are very pricey, Graviton physics and them sort). That way I can see all parts of the corp and feel all included and warm and tingly inside. (No need for query on secure as that is better left hidden). You should absolutely restrict BPOs and minerals if there is a significant risk of damaging theft.

Please don't see this as materialistic greed (Dolly). I do not want anything from the corp. If it came across as that then it shouldn't have.

And Dolly I read your post pre-modedit and

See that's much nicer, I don't feel quite like such a cupcake now. I'll sort the access stuff out as soon as the server is up. Can't remember where the 5punkbank HQ is off hand but will let you know. Skillbooks will stay where they are though, that's exactly the point: they're in there for people to take, however pricey they me be.

Anyone else feeling left out the loop and want similar access? As I thought I'd made clear before but obviously hadn't, simply asking/explaining why you want to see things can go a long way to getting what you want. Quiet boys don't get toffees! I don't want there to be a them and us, that goes against what we've worked so hard to achieve. But conversely, there must be a simple level of compartmentalisation - it's common sense.

meh don't worry about me for access. With RL i not really online so much u know?

I like the way security is and less likely going to get hit by corp thief or angry kid.

friznit wrote:See that's much nicer, I don't feel quite like such a Berk now. I'll sort the access stuff out as soon as the server is up. Can't remember where the 5punkbank HQ is off hand but will let you know. Skillbooks will stay where they are though, that's exactly the point: they're in there for people to take, however pricey they me be.

Anyone else feeling left out the loop and want similar access? As I thought I'd made clear before but obviously hadn't, simply asking/explaining why you want to see things can go a long way to getting what you want. Quiet boys don't get toffees! I don't want there to be a them and us, that goes against what we've worked so hard to achieve. But conversely, there must be a simple level of compartmentalisation - it's common sense.

Thanks Friz. I don't wish to have an alt in the 5permbank (I didn't even know this existed tho I do remember vaguely a post about it a while back), but the rest of it is

.

Could you make 5punker title give all what I asked as there are others like me who would appreciate it I think. Thanks.

^this

I remember the rights management being a bloody nightmare on the occaisions that I did it.

And also being able to view the corp wallet isn't that great a thing... to be honest it can be a bit disappointing to see the wallet icon start flashing, get all excited and then see that the isk is not going into yours!

postes are disappearing round here...

so I command you all to be full of FWUFF!

!

THE POWER OF KNUT COMPELS YOU

blimey, that makes our Shitrix server have an even bigger spazz than normal!

EVE ONLINE.
SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS!

5punk

Why is corp security so tight an where is all the isk going?

Why is corp security so tight an where is all the isk going?