5punk

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18996377

"Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space."

I can't tell if the guy has a genuine concern for the PC gamer, or he is worried that Steam will be stitched up and lose out on some pennies. It does sound like typical MS move though. Copy and rip the crap out of a competitor's idea.

Jimmington wrote:I can't tell if the guy has a genuine concern for the PC gamer, or he is worried that Steam will be stitched up and lose out on some pennies. It does sound like typical MS move though. Copy and rip the crap out of a competitor's idea.

Probably a bit of both, but I imagine Steam is at the front of his mind.

Thing is though, as hard as Microsoft attempt to close down the platform, it will only take a few days to crack it open again... so if people really wanna run Windows 8 and Steam/other things etc, then they'll find a way quite quickly and easily.

Valve have had a long history of knowing what gamers want, and I think Gabe's business philosophy is 'a happy gamer is a paying gamer', so I think his opinion on Windows 8 is both concern over the medium and for his business - for Valve the two are inseparable. And I agree entirely; even thought Win8 can run in desktop mode, from what I've seen and heard of it that's not native, and I can't see that making things better for PC gamers. Metro may well make playing touchscreen games better, but who really gives a shit about them? People play those games on their phones because they're on their phones. Maybe we'll see a spate of touchscreen monitors released after Win8, but who wants to spend several hours with their arm outstretched? So Win8 is, in my opinion, of no benefit to most PC users at best, and a terrible step in the wrong direction at worst. After the (admittedly small) disaster that was Windows Phone I can't see the logic in replicating that for their strongest market, and if I were to go out on a wildly speculative limb I'd suggest that this move may well cripple Microsoft for years.

As far as Steam goes, though, Valve have such huge marketing power that they could make a lot of difference by encouraging development for Linux. Hell, they could release their own version of it. They could release their own version of Linux on their own hardware, and that's an interesting thought. The only advantage of using Windows for gamers is that all games support it. If we had access to a free OS that guaranteed all Steam games would run and with half decent Windows emulation for others it would be a strong argument for ditching Microsoft. And if I remember correctly Gabe has hinted that they're going to start pushing Linux (and Mac) compatibility.

I think he's missing one big point, not many gamers will use W8, it's something that'll work like Fista - on new PCs for a year or two while gamers stick with a solid platform they know works.

If it doesn't suck, gamers will migrate after a fair bit of OS maturing time

Yes, from what I can see from Win8, I just see another Fista in the works.

I'll probably completly ignore it and stick with Win7.

Its just following the regular pattern of Windows releases, isn't it? Good, crap, good, crap. 98 was good, ME was crap, XP was good, Fista was crap, Win7 was good. Of course 8 is going to be shit. Anything else would be messing with the natural order of things.

You forgot 2k, arguably a better OS than xp was before sp1.

True, but then if you include pre and post SP1 as two different things it works again, and like you say, XP got significantly better with SP1.

What I find most interesting about this just how worried MS's marketing and management will be right now.

They've just had the head of one of their biggest third party developers for consumer products, who also happen to own and run the biggest (and arguably, best) digital distribution platform in existance which regularly sports 3.5 million concurrent active users on average with probably well over 10 million actual accounts, come out and describe your latest soon to be released product as a catastrophe in public and then had major news outlets spread that comment around to the even wider general public.

Yeah, I'd be a bit worried.

I'm certain there will be a way to get to the desktop interface for Win8, if you run the server version you get it by default (looks a bit arse, though) the closed-platform stuff could still apply though. While I can appreciate their idea of bringing a universal interface across phones, tablets and computers - it's the wrong interface. Not least because it's impractical and annoying on a PC, but they've also ignored the fact that even those people who have smartphones mostly don't have Windows ones.

Most games on Steam, ie the non-Valve ones, aren't going to run on Linux anytime soon. They are just the same files you get on a CD, delivered through Steam's download system. While a Linux Steam might fuel some development on new games, no-one is going to convert the existing catalogue.

The main problem with Metro is probably not our ability to run games, but all these industry bosses saying gaming is going casual and mobile, potentially shutting down the amount of funding going into proper games. Closing the Windows environment and shoving Metro in our faces won't help that situation.

I think for most of us W8 will be easy to ignore, but whether W9 will follow the rule and be good is debatable. If Metro proves successful MS will likely take future versions of Windows further down that line.

I don't see anything about Windows 8 that will prevent people from using Steam at all. The Desktop isn't going anywhere any time soon, that would be an instant death sentence for enterprise sales. Not to mention it would be incredibly retarded considering the vast, uncountably large library of x86 desktop apps out there that makes Windows as attractive as it is.

I'll probably be upgrading to Windows 8 for the hell of it. You can nearly completely ignore Metro (everything but the Start Screen), and the Start Screen behaves in a way very similar to the Fista/Win7 Start Menu (i.e.: you can just start typing to search, etc.) so I really don't get the massive hate. Sure it's probably not the greatest UI move for people without touchscreens but at least they're thinking about it and changing it up.

I've not paid an awful lot of attention to the whole Win8 thing, as nothing that is being said about it is of particular interest to me, but as I understand it the issue here is that Win8 (or some editions, or something like that) will be kind of locked down so that the only way of getting downloadable software is via a MS owned store, a bit like how you can only get iPhone apps through itunes. Course, that will probably get hacked to buggery within seconds of Win8 being available, but it'll still have an effect.

Win 8 can suck on my sweaty knob. And that's my considered response.

But really, Win7 is still new, most medium-large businesses aren't looking to move from xp until it's thoroughly dead, pulling this shit is even less likely to entice them away. The harder they make it do what you want the less likely bespoke systems and the like will work or be easily ported without extra costs.

HereComesPete wrote:Win 8 can suck on my sweaty knob. And that's my considered response.

But really, Win7 is still new, most medium-large businesses aren't looking to move from xp until it's thoroughly dead

I know where I work they only just started moving to Fista at the end of last year. Someone with more than half a functioning synapse seems to have squished that as they are now swapping everyone over to win7. Anyone suggesting they move to win8 is likely to be laughed at with aplomb.

Joose wrote:Anyone suggesting they move to win8 is likely to be killed with a bomb.

And rightly so!

deject wrote:I don't see anything about Windows 8 that will prevent people from using Steam at all. The Desktop isn't going anywhere any time soon, that would be an instant death sentence for enterprise sales. Not to mention it would be incredibly retarded considering the vast, uncountably large library of x86 desktop apps out there that makes Windows as attractive as it is.

I'll probably be upgrading to Windows 8 for the hell of it. You can nearly completely ignore Metro (everything but the Start Screen), and the Start Screen behaves in a way very similar to the Fista/Win7 Start Menu (i.e.: you can just start typing to search, etc.) so I really don't get the massive hate. Sure it's probably not the greatest UI move for people without touchscreens but at least they're thinking about it and changing it up.

I agree, it would kill enterprise sales, and that's where the vast majority of Microsoft's income comes from. So I can't quite bring myself to believe that Win 8 will be all Metro and touchscreens and iTunes. However, everything I've seen about it would actually suggest that is what they're doing. So either they've had a massive brainfuck and are releasing this thing as it appears to be, or they're doing a bloody awful PR job on it. Time will tell, and I've not 100% written it off. I have 85% written it off though.

Joose wrote:I've not paid an awful lot of attention to the whole Win8 thing, as nothing that is being said about it is of particular interest to me, but as I understand it the issue here is that Win8 (or some editions, or something like that) will be kind of locked down so that the only way of getting downloadable software is via a MS owned store, a bit like how you can only get iPhone apps through itunes. Course, that will probably get hacked to buggery within seconds of Win8 being available, but it'll still have an effect.

Metro apps will only be available on the MS Store, but regular programs will still work fine and can be purchased anywhere. Steam will work exactly the same in Windows 8 as it does now. 100% the same.

Thing is, Win 8 is aim primarily at handheld devices, so PC will always be an afterthought for this OS, and will likely suffer for that.

TezzRexx wrote:Thing is, Win 8 is aim primarily at handheld devices, so PC will always be an afterthought for this OS, and will likely suffer for that.

As evidenced by the thing people should be complaining about, which is the totally fucked nature of settings/control panel stuff in the Release Preview. Some things you want to futz with are in the Settings app (Metro side), some are in the legacy Control Panel. Sometimes clicking on stuff in the Settings app will send you to a desktop window. This shit is all over the map and is typical Microsoft not taking the effort to get the user experience perfect if you deviate from their idea of what most people do.