5punk

Ive been trying to finish off the initial costing of stuff that I started before Christmas, and Ive noticed a problem regarding damage types, as in Bashing, fire, etc.

My original plan was this: Damage types would only be relevant for damage resistance. So Bashing would be resisted by Bashing Resistance, Fire would be Fire resistance, and so on. Other than that, they would have no direct affect: You dont get to set someone on fire just because your power does Fire damage, you need to add a DoT effect for that. I like this because it is simple, and gives you the most flexiability when making powers. If you want to set people on fire, you can. If you want to throw fire around that for some reason doesnt start secondary fires itself, you can do that too. Lovely.

For powers that just use one type of damage, thats dead easy, and works fine. Where it goes wrong is more than one damage type. I was going to keep it nice and simple by saying that if your resistance matches at least one of the damage types of the power, you can use it. If it doesnt, you cant. This is good and simple, but has a fairly obvious problem: A power that does one type of damage is better than a power that does two types of damage, because the only effect you get from putting more damage types in is increasing the chance your opponent has a valid resistance. Which is fucking dumb, a power that does fire damage should be less good than one that does fire *and* bashing damage.

Ive thought of a handful of ways to fix this issue, but I honestly cant decide which one is the best. Halp!

Here they are:

1) Make the cost of the amount of damage the power does to some degree inversly proportional to the number of damage types it does. For example, something that does 10 Fire would cost more than something that does 10 Fire and Bashing. That way, you can get more bang for your buck by increasing the chances your target can resist it in some way.
Good: Its easy to understand, and doesnt change the combat rules in any way
Bad: It still leaves more damage types being less good, which doesnt sit right with me. Also, its super-open to powergaming abuse.

2) Make the different damage types make the cost of certain other components less, in a thematically appropriate way. For example, having Fire as a damage type could make adding DoT cheaper, bashing type damage could make the stun option cheaper (well, stun is a negative cost, but it could make it even more of a negative cost). That way, although you still have more of a chance of getting resisted, you get more options of shiny extras. Its very similar to option 1 to be honest, but a bit more interesting.
Good: Same as 1, but a bit more interesting
Bad: Entirely the same as 1, and possibly not as good an offset.


3)Split damage types into seperate blocks, which get resisted seperately. For example, instead of 10 fire and bashing, you could have 6 fire, 4 bashing on one power. If your opponent resists fire, he can resist up to 6 of the damage with it, and if he resists bashing, then 4. if his resistance covers both, he can resist both fire and bashing. This is good in that it involves less buggering around with complex costs, but could make combat veeery complex if people start using powers with many different types.
Good: Simple costs
Bad: complex combat, and to be honest, im not sure it entirelly fixes the root problem.

4) Have resistances only apply in full to damage types they fully cover, and half against powers they only slightly cover. Using the above examples of a Fire and Bashing attack, if it is resisted by a fire and bashing resistance, then it gets its full effect. If it only resists fire, or only bashing, then it works but at 50% strength. If it resists neither, it cant be used. This is the simplest to impliment by far, and probably the simplest to use in game, but its the most "gamey" way of doing things.
Good: It is, in every way, simple
Bad: It might be a bit too simple

I immediately thought of 4. Doesn't seem too gamey to me.

4, like Pokémon*.

Weak vs. Dragon, Res to Fire = x2 * x0.5 = x1 damage
roughly


I think this method is super-effective.


(*actually not like Pokémon, attacks only have one type)

The only problem I can see from that is if someone has a flaming, electro piercing exploder fist, and the person has piercing reduction, then the flaming, electro exploder part takes a 50% reduction, no?

Seems like people could get reductions on common damage types to protect themselves from the less common, tacked on extra ones.

What if each power had its elemental components tiered, so in the flaming electro piercing exploder fist example, fire could be the primary, electro secondary, piercing tertiary, etc. The elemental effects would be distributed damage wise by rank, and resistances would be applied by rank as well, maybe flame resistance would knock 100% of its value, electro would knock 50%, pierce knocks 25%, and so on.

Grimmie wrote:The only problem I can see from that is if someone has a flaming, electro piercing exploder fist, and the person has piercing reduction, then the flaming, electro exploder part takes a 50% reduction, no?

Seems like people could get reductions on common damage types to protect themselves from the less common, tacked on extra ones.

I would imagine if all damage amounts are equal between fire, electricity, piercing and explosive then with resistance against one, the other three would still damage and it would be more damage. If one of four powers was resisted completely and the others where 50% resisted as they were connected to that other power, it's still more net damage unresisted.

EG - arbitrary numbers ahoy!

All things being equal - Fire does 10 damage, Bashing does 10 damage. Bashing is fully resisted so 0 damage, Fire is 50% resisted so 5 damage. 5 in total.

With Fire 10, Explosive 10, Electricity 10 and Piercing 10 - Fire is resisted so 0 damage, however explosive, electric and piercing at 50% damage each is a total of 15 damage.

So you pay more for the powers and it does more, the offset however is the higher chance of it being resisted by connection and your damage actual versus damage potential drops. Alternatively you could drop 40 points worth of damage into fire and do anything from no damage to full damage. This works with partial as well as full resistance and different damage levels for different connected powers.

Grimmie wrote:The only problem I can see from that is if someone has a flaming, electro piercing exploder fist, and the person has piercing reduction, then the flaming, electro exploder part takes a 50% reduction, no?

Seems like people could get reductions on common damage types to protect themselves from the less common, tacked on extra ones.

Yup. Thats the problem: The solutions are either simple, but easily exploited (even accidentally exploited, if you see what I mean), or not easily exploited but a lot more complicated.

HereComesPete wrote:I would imagine if all damage amounts are equal between fire, electricity, piercing and explosive then with resistance against one, the other three would still damage and it would be more damage. If one of four powers was resisted completely and the others where 50% resisted as they were connected to that other power, it's still more net damage unresisted.

Wat?

deject wrote:What if each power had its elemental components tiered, so in the flaming electro piercing exploder fist example, fire could be the primary, electro secondary, piercing tertiary, etc. The elemental effects would be distributed damage wise by rank, and resistances would be applied by rank as well, maybe flame resistance would knock 100% of its value, electro would knock 50%, pierce knocks 25%, and so on.

So, let me see if I've got your idea right: lets say my attack power does 10 damage, the primary damage type is X, the secondary is Y, tertiary is Z. If you have resistance of 10 to X, you get 10 to your resistance. If your resistance was Y instead, you get 5 resistance, and if it was Z, you get 3 (presuming its rounded up). That right? That *could* work, but I have a nagging feeling there is something not right, and I cant put my finger on what.

My thoughts (posted on my phone last time, so short), were similar to Pete's but a bit simpler;

I am a Space Marine. I have my electro-fist. It does 10 electrical/bludgeon damage. If I have electrical resistance it only does 5 bludgeon damage.
I am a flaming Triffid. I have pointy spikes of fire. A pointy spike does 10 piercing/fire/poison damage. If I have fire resistance it only does 7 (ie 2/3 rounded up) damage.

This way, having more damage types makes the damage harder to resist. Naturally it will also be more expensive. Deject's idea is interesting though. You could use a combination of both with diminishing returns on extra damage types;

I am a nuclear bomb. I explode when I am sad. I do 1000 pressure, 700 fire, and 300 radiation damage. If you packed your Oakleys of Fire Resistance you get to negate that 700 fire damage and only be turned into a gooey radioactive mess.