5punk

I was talking yesterday to one of my friends who plays WoW, and he was complaining about the fact that although he really likes the game, ho hates how much it costs. I mentioned the thing that was on 5punk a while ago that worked out that, per hour played, MMO's were some of the cheapest games around. He came up with a counter point that I hadn't really thought of:

"What if the only reason you play the game so much is because you feel like you are wasting money if you dont?"



I hadn't thought of that. But you know, I think he could be right. Im pretty sure that if I wasnt paying for it monthly, I wouldnt be playing as much CoH as I otherwise would. Thats pretty much why I stopped playing EVE; I felt like I was only playing it because I was paying for it, which felt the wrong way around.

Now, im not saying I dont enjoy CoH, but it did get me wondering: how much different would the results for that cost/time played thing be for these games if there were no monthly fee? Obviously, theres no real way to know, I just thought I would share this Interesting Thing™.

Also, would they get played so much if people hadn't sank so much time/money into them?

For example, if someone had sank 1000 hours into a mmporg, they might possibly feel like they're wasted all that time if they were to stop playing.

When I stopped playing CoV due to lack of 5punkers, I kept my subscription going for about another 2 months without playing in the vain hope that people might start playing again.

I eventually gave up and canceled the subscription - a week later everyone starts playing CoH.

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:Also, would they get played so much if people hadn't sank so much time/money into them?

For example, if someone had sank 1000 hours into a mmporg, they might possibly feel like they're wasted all that time if they were to stop playing.

very true, actually. That was another of the reasons I kept playing EVE.

Its also kinda the reason Im not going back: I sold the character so I would now be starting from scratch. That was kinda why I sold it, to *stop* me coming back

It's actually a really good point you make there Joose, however I can't really comment as I have never once subscribed to any game ever, and I don't intend to.

For me, the few hours gaming window I get a week, makes all MMO games absolutely pointless to even entertain getting into them, no matter how fun they look.

Good post Joose, more of this sort of thing

It's crossed my mind too, both with Eve and with CoH. I payed for Eve for months after the last time I played with the intent of playing again, but in the end decided something life-changing would have to happen in order for me to be able to devote the time I'd need to enjoy it so I let my subscription expire with my card. CoH is different - I don't really feel I've made any investment in it because I've not had to grind to get my character where it is, all I've done is fuck about with 5punkers and I could do that just as effectively at level 1 as I can at 25. When 5punkers start drifting away from CoH and I stop enjoying it I'll just cancel it and play the next mmong we move to with no looking back. I think if I can stay like that then I'm not wasting any money.

I only played WoW, Playing it again this month, Because i Have to Pay for it. After this month i bet my left foot I'll be playing Future Beef or some other such.

As much fun as MMO's are, they are like a leech on you're social life. Despite the fact they may work out as quite good money. When you compare it to the stuff you might have done with it i think in the long run you'd feel better if you didn't.

I'm my experience, MMO's are generally unsatisfying, in the example of CoH "yay I'm level 16, i can finally fly!......ah shit I'm as slow as fuck". The money is better spent making you feel better about yourself in real life i think.

Too many people just float from MMO to MMO, all there life and if they don't get out of it they'll end up regretting it in the long run.

Sandwich wrote:As much fun as MMO's are, they are like a leech on you're social life. Despite the fact they may work out as quite good money. When you compare it to the stuff you might have done with it i think in the long run you'd feel better if you didn't.

I'm my experience, MMO's are generally unsatisfying, in the example of CoH "yay I'm level 16, i can finally fly!......ah shit I'm as slow as fuck". The money is better spent making you feel better about yourself in real life i think.

Too many people just float from MMO to MMO, all there life and if they don't get out of it they'll end up regretting it in the long run.

I think thats a bit extreme (also, minor quibble I know, but the slow flying in CoH is level 7. You get pretty fast flying at level 14. I dont think theres any kind of flying you have to wait till 16 for). As for the money being better spent on something in "real life" (whatever the hell thats supposed to mean), couldnt that be said about all games?

As for them being a leech on your social life: Only if the game requires it and you let them. I could spend every hour not working or sleeping in CoH, but I dont. I do other things. I know some other people (mentioning no names*) who do spend rather a lot of their time in their MMO of choice, but that doesnt mean you have to, and it certainly doesnt mean that everyone who plays an MMO does.

*Hehulk

Aye X-fire lies, i have no doubt in my mind i would of racked up 3k+ hours in CS and CS:S over the years.

Joose wrote:I was talking yesterday to one of my friends who plays WoW, and he was complaining about the fact that although he really likes the game, ho hates how much it costs. I mentioned the thing that was on 5punk a while ago that worked out that, per hour played, MMO's were some of the cheapest games around. He came up with a counter point that I hadn't really thought of:

"What if the only reason you play the game so much is because you feel like you are wasting money if you dont?"

I did that list - based on my Xfire stats, and while his argument may be true for a lot of MMO players, it isn't true for me - I don't play them for more time per week than I would any other game, and the MMOs still came top of my list - although BF2 and Oblivion weren't far behind.

See, I waste money all the time on games. I buy £40 games that come out of the box once, and I buy at least one game at least every week. So the £20 or whatever monthly fee for an MMO is nothing in comparison, I'll play them, and if I don't like them, I won't. I don't feel I have to get my money's worth, and won't play a game I don't enjoy.

As for losing what you've "earned" - well unless you (questionably) sell off your character, or play a ripoff like FFXI your characters will still be there if you wish to return. Even if they weren't - it must have been fun to get them there, right?

True I've played Eve more than anything else by a factor of three, but this is spread over more than a year, and my time logged is insignificant compared to people who focus on a single game.

I was surprised they worked out cheaper, as they seem very expensive, but even if you only play them for 6 hours a week (roughly my average) they are still the best value.

Worst value are full-price average titles like The Godfather, Pariah or GRAW - which have captured 12 hours of my time between them in total, yet cost nearly as much as year of MMO.

I don't think I've said it yet in this thread, so I'll go for my usual

FUCKING MMO WEIRDOS!!!

Joose wrote:"What if the only reason you play the game so much is because you feel like you are wasting money if you dont?"

To be honest, this is what I thought I'd end up doing when I first (properly) started playing EVE... and what I DID end up doing towards the end of the three month time code. I'd got fairly bored and only kept playing for the last week or so because I knew I'd paid for the time. But between first getting it and that week of being bored with it I didn't even think of what I'd paid (or what I would pay if I decided to get another time code), I actually did just play it a lot because I liked it a lot.

I paid for a months EVE subscription and propmtly played it for the total of 6 hours in a month 3 of which were AFK. I just couldnt bring myself to play it id rather have played BF2 which i did. The same thing goes for wow, it would be installed and forgotten about within 2 days.

I have no problem paying a monthly subscription for CoH and it doesn't make me feel I should play as often as possible to get the most out of my money. But then I have disposable income and no relationship ongoing at the moment. I give £5 to Wiki every month as well!

My problem with MMOs is that there's no real "end game" to them from what I have seen. There's no killing diablo, no death star trench and certainly no fight with Apollo at the end. What's really the "end" of these games? You max out your level? Then what? Participating in 6 hour raids with lots of random strangers? I can't hardly play a game for 2 hours let alone 6. That whole part is very unappealing to me, unless I'm just missing something.

I do see where nickface is coming from, but MMORPGs (for me at least) aren't just about completing and doing crap.

It's far more about doing something where you can actually have a laugh, a few drinks and talk to your mates, and still accomplish something which isn't really possible in any other type of game*.

This is pretty much covered by the fact in CoH most of us have at least 3 alts (to help people at every level) and a lot of us are probably closer to 10.

*and just being on teamspeak to talk to random internet people is more than a little faaabulous.

Yeah, for me the Endgame issue never really arises. Either because there really isnt one (Like in EVE: there is no real way to 'max out', as it would take several years to learn all the skills) or because im never in too much danger of getting there. Ive never hit the level cap in any MMO ive played. But its not really about that.

I hate cheesy expressions, but I cant think of a better way of putting it than: Its not the destination, its the getting there thats fun. Actually reaching the end (if there even is one) isnt really the point, its the fun you have whilst you are levelling up and getting new and improved shit. Ok, so theres no grand "yay, we made it" moment, but then, there isnt in, say, Sim City, either.

Agreed, what Nickface says is true for me too to a certain extent - without something to aim for it makes the game feel a bit pointless. Games like The Sims and Sim City were dropped fairly quickly when I'd had a play around because I knew I'd never get a satisfactory ending. These are single player games though, and what makes MMONGS worth the money is the people you play with. They're a sandbox for your little adeventures. In Eve the adventure is making your mark in a completely player-driven world, and the feeling of accomplishment when you achieve a personal goal after a long time is better than any end sequence. In CoH there is no sense of achievement, and as a single player game it would be rubbish, but it's a sandbox for messing about with your mates and seeing what silly things you can get up to within the confines of the game. I don't really care what level I am, or if I ever reach the cap. It's not about that. It's about holding a faaabulous Pride protest in Atlas Park, or commentating on a fight between a 40ft tall snow monster and a hapless smart-arsed high level superhero.

I disliked WoW for the very reason that it was a single player game with lots of other people getting in the way. It was basically a linear storyline that you followed until it ran out, you reached the level cap, then there was nothing better to do and no more goals to reach. Eve I enjoy exactly because there are no goals set by the game designer - you make your own. For example, our goal last year (and it took almost that long) was to acquire two capital ships. The sense of achievement was wonderful, and since then we've moved on and set new goals - but our goals, not the game dev's. I'm always on the look out for games with non-linear content - Total War series, some of the later Op Flashpoint mods and yes, even X3...but despite flying a fleet of Star Destroyers and pwning the galaxy it got boring cos there was no 5punkers to show it off to...so I was drawn inexorably back to the world of MMOs.