5punk

2006.02.16 18:46
Exuro Mortis has declared war on Interstellar Starbase Syndicate.
After 24 hours fighting can legally occur between those involved.

For your convenience we have included the appropriate CONCORD War Rules:

The weekly cost is REMOVED ISK and you will receive a bill which needs to be paid promptly to maintain the
war. If the bill is not paid before it is due then the war will be cancelled. If the war is cancelled then do not pay any
outstanding bills for that war.

When an active war has been cancelled, there is a 24 hour grace period during which you can still be legally
attacked.

If you are at war with a corporation that joins an alliance then the war will change from being against the corporation
to being against the alliance.

If you are at war with an alliance and a corporation leaves that alliance then you will still be at war with the alliance
but also temporarily at war with the corporation that left. The war against the corporation that leaves an alliance lasts
24 hours during this period you can attack them until the war expires.

Should you wish to resume hostilities against such a corporation then you need to declare war again.



Just to bring this into contrast as to why this is even remotly odd, BS.I are members of Exuro Mortis.

Which means two things. One is that Hehulk must kill Silver Light everytime he logs on. The other is that 5punkorp is pretty fucked right now cos we're gonna have a whole load of war targets trundling through the pipe to camp out in Marginis. Oh joy.

Anyone feel like leaving ISS for a bit?

friznit wrote:Anyone feel like leaving ISS for a bit?

Strangely, I just had exactly the same idea. We'd have to speak with someone about our POS being where it is, but it would solve our immediate problems.

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Just wondering, but why exactly are we in ISS? The brazillians left and dont they still have a POS in whatever system theyre in?

Wiggy69 wrote:We'd have to speak with someone about our POS being where it is, but it would solve our immediate problems.

Serously, take it down. Right now, you have neither the man power, nor the defences to protect that thing. It's on a pipe, which means it's easy to get to, and we've prolly lost count by now of exactly how many people know it's there. Cruel are one, but god knows who else.

As for isk making, Go rape a complex or two.

Hehulk wrote:

Wiggy69 wrote:We'd have to speak with someone about our POS being where it is, but it would solve our immediate problems.

Serously, take it down. Right now, you have neither the man power, nor the defences to protect that thing. It's on a pipe, which means it's easy to get to, and we've prolly lost count by now of exactly how many people know it's there. Cruel are one, but god knows who else.

As for isk making, Go rape a complex or two.

The beautiful paradox being that in the current situation neither do we have the manpower or the defences to take it down and get it safely back to empire. I'm sure you don't need reminding of the expense we incurred getting the damn thing out here in the first place, and we've yet to even make a dent in the 1 billion or so spent doing it. I can only assume from you advice that you know something we don't about your intentions, and my current feelling, albeit kneejerk, is that we're fucked.

I don't know much about EVE at all, but surely leaving ISS would save you guys from being able to be attacked thus making the POS safe?.. I suppose ISS might call you cowardly or something, but what would they really do about it? And someone else asked "What are we in ISS for?", Unless somebody has an answer to this, I reckon you quit them.

*Non-knower stops.*

friznit wrote:I can only assume from you advice that you know something we don't about your intentions, and my current feelling, albeit kneejerk, is that we're fucked.

No no, I'm not gona send a dready knocking on your frontdoor. That'd be silly, I've a barge there

And as for Knee Jerks, that'd be me for first place. POS has been there for a while now. If someone didn't like that, we'd know about it. Plus it has got those 4 large guns.

hmmm.....
I have some questions.....
What does the POS cost us?
What does the POS benefit us?
What does the ISS cost us?
What does the ISS benefit us?

How does everybody feel about pulling back into Empire and persuing the 'Great 5punkcorp' idea of mining and producing pre-outfit ships? If we host some open tournaments, we might could create our own 'niche' market. Soak up some profit, and re-evaluate 0.0 sector operations when we have a larger, more diverse, and profitable company. More people might get bored however, so it is best to get many opinions.

Just my thoughts. I don't know much history of 5punkcorp, so I hope I'm not offending anyone with these questions.

wow, that news is complete pants, and not of the groovy dog variety

to make things (a little) worse, I'm away for the next week, so unable to lend a hand/scout/small hauler to whatever enterprise we decide to undertake.

On the other hand, I do have a couple of suggestions if we feel that the POS is sincerely under threat....

1. Join IAS with the Brazilians. Don't know anything about IAC but it has alcohol in the name and they seem active in the area
2. Take down the POS and ask the brazilians if we can leave our inactive POS inside their POS shield bubble. This to me is a good and simple idea, and everything else can go in secure cans ... wherever. They're next door so chances of getting in trouble are less and it would be easier to set up again after "the troubles".
3. Dump the POS in Marginis...? Dunno about this one

/edit ... errr, Yak just pointed out to me that IAC have been war decc'd aswell. The campaign is clearly against the both of us. also see http://www.exuromortis.net for their kill board. Seems they decc'd ISS last november and claim carnage ensued (see campaign/patience) although I know that kill boards usually under-report losses. The wars usually seem to last 2 weeks to a month. OTOH, some of the alliance corps are rat corps who I think already operate on the KDF routes, so whether this will make those routes more dangerous than they are now is debatable ... although it probably will.

Frankly I'm not sure what we've been getting from our relationship with ISS. It seems to me that whenever the shit hits the fan, ISS leave member corps to fend for themselves. The lack of suppport in pulling out of Stain and the current cancellation of freighter runs to Marginis. They don't really seem to be taking the whole thing seriously, their complete lack of support for the KDF routes is symptomatic of this.

To answer Dres question about the POS.... From my perspective the POS is currently an ISK eater. We're not using it enough for what we need to, which is refining rocks. In the main this is because it's just too difficult and dangerous in the current climate, with the manpower and skills we have at hand. If I understand the situation correctly, we would have a much easier time of it with a small tower, although if this meant no ship maintenance array then that would really cripple the ratters (one of which I fully intend to become on my return from the white powdery slopes of the alps ). From a mining point of view, we're making much more green raping the belts in BWF at the moment, it's on empire doorstep and seems well defended (they have a naval corp that actually responds to people being attacked, rather than saying "sorry, I'm in empire atm"). However, while this might sound like I'm against the POS .. I'm not. The POS is a good thing that's currently stuck in a bit of a pile of shit. It's a symbol that we take ourselves seriously as a corp. If we can get through the current troubles (read: multi faction wars) in the region and come out intact, we will be well placed to really start making our way. Empire is OK, but in the end it's a sand box to play in while preparing for the big leagues. And, of course, Exuro Mortis can attack us in empire, which is why they will have war decc'c us in the first place. For info, I know most people are well aware of this but for the noobs like me; once war decc'd the warring parties can attack each other any where and no-one, cops gate guns etc, will intervene. So take care and run like f%^k from anything with a red star on it.

I hope that this war hasn't anything to do with one of Exuro Mortis members getting teabagged by a fleet of ISS frigates the other day

Well, whatever the future holds, i probably won't be back on until saturday, (in the post DT). I did manage to find some nice ratting ground just out of Berta in hothomouh, where most rats I hit were 50K, and had nice loot. Even found a TS. I donated the lions share of the bounties to the corp to support us in whatever we decide to do. I for one am for pulling out of the ISS if it isn't performing to expectations. That's the signal to send if we're not happy. It'll save us money, and (I hope) get us out of the war. I know in the low sec zone the POS is in, it can still be attacked, so I vote that we protect that investment, whether it be fueling the hell out of it to keep shields and guns up, or moving or dismantling it to protect the future for it. The extra money saved from ISS could go to the POS fuel as well. Just some perspective from an overtired mind that is finally getting enough skills to use cool armor and shield upgrades, and just cleaned up on cool loot.

Cheers fellows on whatever we decide. I'm behind you all the way, and paddling my boat like crazy to catch up!

-Dres

Let me just clear a few things up here, then I'll post what I see our options being on the hidden forum, for obvious reasons.

1. We get a hell of a lot of benefits from ISS. For starters, for a mere 25mill per month we get Sov in our system, which means 25% less fuel consumption. The savings on fuel more than cover the ISS fees.

2. We generally have more friends in our area than we have enemies. Last night I ratted solidly for around 4 or 5 hours and didn't see a single threat in local, but many fleets of ASCN, AF, IAC - all of whom would pose a threat under the 0.0 NBSI policy if we weren't part of ISS.

3. We are only 6 jumps from Marginis, where we have recently been given access to jump clones meaning we don't have to run the gate camps to get to the POS constantly. For example, I now have a barge for empire and another for the POS.

4. We get access to Catch (remember it is not neutral space, we're there cos FIX let ISS in originally - admittedly before the recent political struggles). Very soon we'll get access to Tenerifis too, which is run by LV and is usually quiet as far as I can see. Then, only then, should we consider moving.

5. ISS political clout is not to be scoffed at. Have a look at our NAP and friends list if you need convincing.

6. We barely have the manpower to move our POS under the protection it would require during an Alliance war. As long as it's got enough fuel (it has) and a stock of strontium clath (it will get more) then it'll be fine. Question to ask, why the hell would anyone want to go to the effort of taking down a POS in a non-strategically important location with no significant benefits? We're the only POS in system. Go figure.

7. It's still mining the moon, making us 50+ millions a month.

8. Ratting is lucrative, and the loot drops that I sold from our ratting there made 25 mill for the corp, plus a bucket load of mins which I've recently turned into a dozen fully fitted frigates.

Now, there are other issues at stake, but they're internal corp issues rather than geo-political. Not least is the willingness of corp members to actually partake in POS operations rather sit in fluffy empire. Everytime we 5chedule a mining op now, all I get is excuses why people can't turn up.

The remainder of my rant will be on the 0.0 forum later on tonight, once I've though through our option a bit more. But my priorities are simple:

Survival

Profit

/me tries to smooth Friz's ruffled feathers

if the POS is not in danger (and looking at the kill board of the guys who have decc'd ISS they don't seem interested in killing POSs, so I'd hazard that it's not) then my vote is to change nothing.

wrt ISS membership, if the considered opinion is that we benefit from it then again I say let the status quo be. There are frustrations with some things but if on balance it is a good thing (and it seems to be from what you say Friz) then that's that.

we will need to be ever more vigilant in fuel runs and perhaps hehulk scouting might be a tender issue in the next couple of weeks, but the route is already busy so not too much change there.

regards mining, sorry, but you know my evening constraints. I'm happy to help all I can with hauling scouting and daytime mining though

/edit and I think this whole thread should probably be moved to the hiddem forum

.

I'm always happy! Just been thinking of ways we can turn this to our advantage. Here is a brief insight into a small part of what we call in my line of work a mission analysis, which is in turn part of the combat estimate process

The options as I see it are as follows:

1. Up sticks and move somewhere else.

2. Collapse and move back to empire (and leave ISS).

3. Join another alliance and either move or stay put.

4. Contract ourselves out as spies to Exo Mortis in return for protection.

5. Do nothing and carry on normal jogging.

narf, my preferred course of action (COA) is the last one, given the amount of effort it's taken us to get this far, what we've learned and know now about life in 0.0, and what Amblin tells us about the POS defences, though I'm open to suggestions.

Why is this my preferred COA? You need to look at our constraints (-) and our freedoms (+). Here is an example:

POS - A criteria for being in ISS (-); costs alot to run (-); needs fuel haulage (-); mines haf constantly: 50mill isk every 19 days (+); this needs hauling to empire (-). Base for ratting = individual isk (bounties) and corp isk for loot drops (+). Also for mining high end ores (+) but these also need hauling (-). Proximity to Marginis giving a potentially lucrative market for ships (+). Provides a focus for the corp and is fucking cool (+). [Note: I have yet to crunch the sums on the POS isk (haf+mins+loot = fuel-sov). Initial indications are that it's is not costing as much as I first thought to fuel up, simply because we're not running it at anything like full capacity]

Clearly some + and - are weighted, but my gut feeling is that the POS is 'a good thing'. Now you have to go through this process for each aspect of the current situation (ISS membership, corp members, skillsets, location, threats, enemies etc etc). Something that will take far too long to type out here.

Once you've done that, you develop your various courses of action based on what effect you want to achieve (which in this case I've decided are Survival of the Corp and Profit - see above). This then narrows things down to a few viable options. Once you've settled on a COA, then you can develop your Mission, Intent, scheme of manoeuvre (SoM) and Main Effort (ME). So.

Mission: Acquisition of ISK in order to ensure corp survival and profit.

Intent: to make enough isk monthly to keep the POS fuelled and to allow for acceptable losses in the 5punk fleet.

SoM: by means of ratting, trading, mining incl moon minerals and marketing Ready2Rock ships I aim to make enough isk to cover the monthly fuel bill and soak up ship losses. By setting a monthly isk target and aiming to meet this within the first 10 days of the month, we can have the rest of the time to blow the shit out of stuff, make a bit of personal isk or bum our expanding supply of corpses. My desired endstate for this phase is to have enough isk to cover the purchase of a second POS, with a view to creating complex reactions in the future.

ME: Main Effort is keep the POS fuelled

At this stage I would normally give out a bunch of missions and tasks to indiviudual or troops. But since we're not in the Army but playing a damn computer game I'll leave it up to you guys to read from this what you will

Meanwhile, I'm gonna finish building a load of frigs and parts for them with the stash of minerals we've got in Khank, so we can all go fuck over some war targets in empire.

By the length and content of that I would guess you're at work.

Dog Pants wrote:By the length and content of that I would guess you're at work.

This. And bored. On a Friday afternoon. And I want to play Eve now.

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amblin wrote:When you say build ships Friz, have you been doing some production efficiency training?

Yeah, she's 3 going on 4. Tis ok for a couple of frigs that use only 1 zyd each, but not much else.