Bioshock: Infinite

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Joose
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite

Post by Joose »

FatherJack wrote:And my main issue is with the last bit:
Spoiler:
The two choices made: be baptised or not result in either becoming Comstock or not. By choosing to take a third option he supposedly destroys the possiblity that he will ever become Comstock in all possible universes. I don't how that's the case - what about all the other universes where he didn't take that option? It's the way it presents itself as a "there, I fixed everything" outcome when it just isn't.
Spoiler:
Sure, he's made a new branch free of Comstock and Columbia, as well as Anna and himself - as misery was inevitable in all the previous branches, but it's only salvation in that one stream. I assume the final scene is in his head - a final happy memory as he dies.
I'll concede it is a resolution from the player's perspective, though.
Ah, but you are missing something vital there.
Spoiler:
It's not just parallel worlds, it's *branching* parallel worlds. In other words before he gets baptised there is only one world, then the decision he makes there creates two branches, one where he went through with it and one where he didn't. By drowning him as soon as he goes through with it they have changed the choice from "booker or Comstock" to "booker or dead". With no Comstock to come kidnap his daughter, the whole thing is undone. The entire game didn't happen.

This partly has to do with your other question: a side effect of the twins' "death" is that they are unglued from space and time, hence their being able to apparently teleport around the place and know what's going on. By the end Elizabeth has gained the same ability which is why she can take you back to the baptism. there's a big debate between the twins that essentially boils down to a question of determinism: the bloke thinks its not all predetermined so is insisting on going through the loop over and over till they manage to break it whilst the woman thinks its all just going to happen the same way every time. I think thats the point of the coin toss at the beginning: the guy has a count and every one of them is heads (or was it tails? I forget) because he keeps hoping that one of them will be different but the woman thinks it will always be the same.

At the end the loop has been broken: between you and Elizabeth you have changed the choice at the baptism so there is no comstock, which means there is no Columbia because the lady-twin (I can't remember their names, ok?) never got funded by Comstock which means there is no portals which means Elizabeth and Booker get to live thier lives in peace. It still doesn't make a paradox though, because the Elizabeth you broke the loop with (along with the twins presumably) is outside of time so would continue to exist even after the loop has been closed.
I think.
Spoiler:
What I can't decide is whether this leaves it super-open to DLC (alternative worlds ahoy!) or DLC is kinda impossible (by the end of the game the whole thing never happened)
FatherJack
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite

Post by FatherJack »

That makes more sense, but it could have been presented better.
Spoiler:
Accepting that Liz can move through time as well as drag people through, while not something I'd have inferred from just parallel universes, at the end the scenario is different from what you've experienced during the game. You're no longer Booger #123 reliving the inevitable but actually the just-baptised one for whom the whole game hasn't happened yet, nor will. I didn't spot either of those points at the time - they could have shown the baptism and the people going away before the Liz's appear. I was a bit knackered after trotting round an infinite number of lighthouses.

The dialogue has him saying "why are we back here?", when it should be more like "who are you?"
Spoiler:
I still don't enitirely buy their use of parallel worlds, with them being used to make the gunsmith not dead or make the tools not be there which somehow magically puts all the weapons in the hands of the rebels and the gunsmith dead anyway. I'll write it off that in the game we're watching one critical path where everything worked out, not all the others where it went spectacularly wrong. Of course really it just happens that way to progress the plot.
Spoiler:
Of course there are other stories to be told (hello DLC) which convince all the other Liz's to turn up. I'd certainly like to hear the blood-soaked, possible Vox-Populi Liz's story.
TezzRexx
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite

Post by TezzRexx »

Spoiler:
ITT: We spoiler out all of our text! =P

Also, does the spoiler button not work anymore? Just tried using it and it wrapped my text in media tags instead...
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite

Post by Dog Pants »

The spoiler button never has worked, but I don't know how to fix it.
Anery
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite

Post by Anery »

This is like reading some secret government files.

However

If you watch to the end of the credits
Spoiler:
He woke up and it was all a dream
Joose
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite

Post by Joose »

Yep,
Spoiler:
thats the new result of not having gone through with the baptism, and therefore not being drowned.
Joose
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite

Post by Joose »

In case anyone is still confused: All the explanation you will ever need, ever.
Anery
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite

Post by Anery »

That link makes things a LOT easier to understand. I might actually finish the first two games now - just to see if there are any other hints.
I did see that there was some mention of a Songbird DLC? To play as Songbird and become this MASSIVE FUCKING FLYING DEATH CUPCAKE would be nice
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite

Post by spoodie »

It's interesting looking back on the original teaser trailer:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WDQ4FhslSk[/media]
Roman Totale
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite

Post by Roman Totale »

Well, it was rather enjoyable, pretty, and with a decent story line, but I still can't help feeling a little shortchanged. Steam clocked me finishing it in around 17 hours, and I wasn't rushing through it. Now, Portal 2 got the same amount of mileage, but with that I found the length to be made up for by the excellent dialogue and gameplay (there were times during Bioshock where I thought they'd summoned shades of Cave Johnson for the voxphones).

Gameplay wasn't vastly different from the other Bioshock installments (except for they're Vigours instead of Plasmids). The skyline/hook things were a good addition though - good sport to zip around and knock someone off a balcony.

It was fun, but alas I played it after having heard all the hype and proclamations of perfection which probably took the sheen off a little. I've heard people extol the greatness of Elizabeth and how, for an escort, she never gets in your way - bullshit. She got under my feet plenty, especially when it came to narrow doorways. I think it's one of those hive mind/shared hallucination things where people just go along with the consensus rather than reality.

Hmm, I find it very difficult to get enthusiastic about games these days.
mrbobbins
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite

Post by mrbobbins »

Roman Totale wrote:Hmm, I find it very difficult to get enthusiastic about games these days.
Even the classics like soggy biscuit?
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