5punk

As a fucking Merkin, all I have to say on this subject is this:


FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!



that is, if I actually owned a gun.

I think you meant:

spoodie wrote: Except hammers and cars aren't designed with the sole purpose of harming or killing things.

(not being a grammar Nazi, just that your post as-was made no sense)

Anyway, even assuming arguendo that all guns were designed with the "sole purpose of harming or killing things" (which is not the case - I suggest googling "target pistol"), that doesn't refute my argument that guns are merely tools. Sometimes projecting horse to defend oneself is necessary and justifiable (without even getting into the whole hunting thing), and guns are a tool for doing so. As a wise man once said, "I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six".

eion wrote:arguendo

Is that when an Argument puts its front brake on to lift the rear end?

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:
Is that when an Argument puts its front brake on to lift the rear end?

Pfffft.

right...

Even if the government isn't oppressive, do you really trust the government - a generally incompetent bunch of fuckwits, to put it mildly - to protect you from everyone, like a loving parent? I'd rather take some responsibility myself, thanks very much.

To be honest, yes. I would rather the people trained to protect me from criminals and suchlike to do it, as I have not a fucking clue how to. Your arguments about protecting yourself are all ballsed up here: In a country where you can get a gun, criminals can get guns *easily*. This means that when the guy burgles your place, he is as likely to be armed as you are. Therefore, you are as likely to be shot as he is.

Besides: most burglaries are done on empty properties. If you are not there, the fact you own a gun does jack shit to the security of your property. Add to that the fact that most burglars, when disturbed, leg it anyway. You dont need a gun: burglars dont want to be identified or caught; you disturb them, the majority of them fuck off at high speed. Unless of course, they had a gun...

Which brings me to the last point against your argument here:

Criminals will get their hands on guns, no matter what. Fact.

Fact? oh god. As Ive said before, I do *love* it when people say "fact" at the end of their dubious statements to lend them more weight. Will hardened criminals/mafia types and other gang organisations get their hands on guns, no matter what? yes, very probably. Will your average brainless chav, smashing people back windows to steal their VCR's be able to get guns? Considerably less likely. Im a reasonably smart individual, and I know a fair few less than salubrious types, and I wouldnt have a fucking clue how to get my hands on an illegal firearm in England. If I cant do it, I doubt your random pillock (who makes up the majority of burglaries) can any easier. Put it this way: How many people here know someone in england who has been involved in the wrong end of violent crime, and how many of those violent crimes involved guns?

Responsible gun ownership is not dangerous. Guns are just tools, like hammers or cars. A gun does not kill - it sends a little projectile at high speed in more-or-less a straight line to whatever it's pointed at. I think if more people in the UK had actually been taught responsible firearms use, they'd realise that.

oh please.
1)no matter how responsible you are, accidents still happen. And how many times have you heard of someone blowing a hole in themselves because their hammer accidentally went off?
2)Actually, due to the fact that most of the male side of my rather large family (irish catholic on my dads side. Need I say more?) either have been or are in the army, most of them have been taught responsible firearms use. Not one of them would want american style rights to guns in England, and all of them that ive talked to about it say that guns are bloody dangerous things, and should be treated with the utmost care and respect. I dont think they feel the same way about the contents of their tool-box.

Joose wrote:oh please.
1)no matter how responsible you are, accidents still happen. And how many times have you heard of someone blowing a hole in themselves because their hammer accidentally went off?

Well, not blowing a hole in themselves, but hammers are Hardened steel, and can potentially splinter in the right situations, eye damage is possible.

But yes, hammers can accidentally "go off"

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:Well, not blowing a hole in themselves, but hammers are Hardened steel, and can potentially splinter in the right situations, eye damage is possible.

But yes, hammers can accidentally "go off"

You know what I mean. Likelyhood of hammer potentially splintering in the right situations and getting in your eye compared to likelyhood of gun being accidentally fired and blowing a chunk out of you?

Put another way: How many times have you actually heard of specific cases of hammers exploding? becuase I know plenty of accidental firings of guns.

A friend of mine had a nickname based around prematurely firing his weapon

I've had a couple go wrong and splinter (and lost a few heads)

There's lot of other tools that can be great fun when they go wrong too.

It's just because guns are tools for making stuff dead, the accidents that happen often involve them making stuff dead.

Same way accidents with hammers often break hand bones.

Same as a chainsaw cutting something off.

If someone wants to kill someone they will.
If someone wants a gun, they'll get one.

Joose wrote:How many times have you actually heard of specific cases of hammers exploding? becuase I know plenty of accidental firings of guns.

We've a nice hole in the desk and door of one of our piquet posts from a guard accidentally firing a round while unloading.

Dog Pants wrote:We've a nice hole in the desk and door of one of our piquet posts from a guard accidentally firing a round while unloading.

RAF + L85 = not the gun's fault.

Actually it was a Provost guard and a Browning 9mm.

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:
RAF + L85 = not the gun's fault.

Was probably an admin clerk or a chef.

Casey Ryback?

This thread sucks and I haven't even read most of it.

Step away from the keyboard....


btw: http://www.lolbots.com/

Don't really step away from the keyboard, I just had to post a picture.

What were we talking about again? Oh yeah, gun laws.
It would probably be good not to have a gun if you met ED-209, so anti-gun campaign thing must be good.

spoodie wrote:What were we talking about again? Oh yeah, gun laws.
It would probably be good not to have a gun if you met ED-209, so anti-gun campaign thing must be good.

ED-209 was broken, you were fucked even if you didn't have a gun, in robocop 1 at least (where the screenshot is from) ISTR they were fixed in a sequel, so at that point your point may become valid, maybe.

As far as this thread goes, I figure it's best we all have a little shout now, rather than a big one later.

I just had another thought:
Never mind burglars, what about zombies?! The firearm being such an effective weapon against the zombie horde. Perhaps we should have more firearms in the UK for this reason.

spoodie wrote:I just had another thought:
Never mind burglars, what about zombies?! The firearm being such an effective weapon against the zombie horde. Perhaps we should have more firearms in the UK for this reason.

Well, a shotgun is pretty well proven against zombies, all you'd need would be a membership at a shooting club and you'd be able to get your self a license and weapon.

Unfortunately, I bet you'd have trouble getting suitable ammo (birdshot won't do the job) so you'd have to load your own cartridges.

Guns are terrible weapons against zombies. The noise will attract loads more, headshots are difficult unless at close range, and you have to reload them too often. Better something like an ice pick or a sharpened shovel to destroy the brain.

Dog Pants wrote:
We've a nice hole in the desk and door of one of our piquet posts from a guard accidentally firing a round while unloading.

And in the interests of balance, i've broken fingers with a hammer.
sometimes I've even done it accidentley.


Even rarer, I've broken my own fingers with a hammer......