TF2's Classless Udpate: Hats & Maps

Baliame · Post by **Baliame** » August 18th, 2009, 11:35

buzzmong wrote:I really do disagree, and fyi, Valve changed it in Feb so that the 125hp classes could not be one shotted by anyone but a sniper/backstab spy (or crits), the change goes against it.

I really do disagree with your disaggrement and fyi, direct rocket or pipe bomb hit can oneshot you. I've been oneshotted by them about 50% of the times I got direct hits on full health. Sorry, Valve changed something? Well how surprising, it doesn't work the way it's intended! Just like probably anything Valve touched this year.

buzzmong wrote:Personally, I think the -30 hp is wrong alongside the removal of the uber stunning. Either or would be fine, low health but uber stunning, or normal health but no uber stunning.
Then again, I thought it was perfectly fine without double jump and being able to stun ubers before, although I can see how reducing the damage blocked by stunned enemies to 25% rather than 50% would have made it overpowered alongside the reduction in the minimal stunning range.

Now, I made my argument before so I'm going with a hearty nope. You've got some fair points there, but remember, every weapon that ever came out (except for medics which have two obviously superior weapons) has downsides to them, so you lose a little health when you equip the Sandman, sorry, it's not like you can completely disable people for a few seconds or something.

buzzmong wrote:I find the damage change odd as well really, as when it first came out stunned enemies took 50% more damage and was responsible for it being banned from the leagues as it was far too overpowered then, so they made it do the opposite to reduce the guaranteed kill factor, only to improve it's damage this update. Hmm.

I'm going to call nonsense on this one. If this would be the reason, leagues would've long unbanned the stick and that 50% more damage thing, it was either a bug or just plain bullshit - I would remember if the Sandman would ever have been that overpowered, the scout update was probably the time I played the most TF2, someone would've whined about it. Unless of course you can back it up with some sort of source in which case regard this paragraph as void in the shape of words.

Post by **FatherJack** » August 18th, 2009, 12:11

Leagues should be banned.

buzzmong · Post by **buzzmong** » August 18th, 2009, 12:38

Baliame wrote:I'm going to call nonsense on this one. If this would be the reason, leagues would've long unbanned the stick and that 50% more damage thing, it was either a bug or just plain bullshit - I would remember if the Sandman would ever have been that overpowered, the scout update was probably the time I played the most TF2, someone would've whined about it. Unless of course you can back it up with some sort of source in which case regard this paragraph as void in the shape of words.

For that, I quote Valve:

[-]March 13, 2009 - Team Fortress 2 Update Released

Updates to Team Fortress 2 have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The specific changes include:

Gameplay Changes

Players who are stunned by a Scout now take 50% less damage

Increased the minimum distance to stun a player with the Sandman

and

February 25, 2009, 5:00 pm - Valve - Product Update

Updates to Team Fortress 2 have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The specific changes include:

Gameplay changes

* Removed the damage reduction against non-stunned enemies on the new bat

I can't find images of the original sandman values though. I could have sworn it was 50% bonus to stunned enemies when it came out.

Baliame · Post by **Baliame** » August 18th, 2009, 12:39

I can definitely say there was no damage bonus against stunned people.

buzzmong · Post by **buzzmong** » August 18th, 2009, 13:02

Yes. You are correct. Wonder where I picked that up from then. Hohum.

However, I going back through the original patches, it's suprising they removed uber stunning as it was one of the bats prime features.

Post by **deject** » August 18th, 2009, 13:41

That is what Pyros and sticky bomb traps are for.

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » August 18th, 2009, 17:19

I'm more bothered about not being able to stun ubers. I loved stunning ubered heavies, now if I encounter a heavy all I can do is die quicker than I would have before because of the huge loss of health and because I can't stun him. I'd say one or the other of those nerfs could have maybe made sense, but both of them together is just absolutely terrible.

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » September 3rd, 2009, 5:29

NEW UPDATE:

Added a "halo" for players who have never entered an achievementidle map or used the idler program
Removed all items gained by idling
Promises of removing EVERY item if people continue to idle

I really think valve would have avoided this idle-monster if they had simply left the achievement method of unlocking weapons... a few people may have still idled for hats, but I don't think it would have escalated to the point it did.

Post by **Grimmie** » September 3rd, 2009, 6:26

If it wasn't an idle server it would be an achievement server.

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » September 3rd, 2009, 7:03

Yeah but achievement servers weren't nearly as bad as idle servers/idle programs, since people were playing in them. They weren't playing "properly", but they were actually in game and playing.

Mr. Johnson · Post by **Mr. Johnson** » September 3rd, 2009, 7:25

We have a word here in Flanders, 'schijnheilig' (literally meaning fake saint) which is used to describe someone that acts like a good person but is actually a cupcake.
That's me, as I received the halo even though I've been on achievement servers.

Baliame · Post by **Baliame** » September 3rd, 2009, 14:28

You only get flagged if you enter a server running achievement_idle or something similar. You can avoid that by idling on dustbowl. And there is nothing wrong with achievement servers (feel free to attack this statement moralcakes), because you still have to do some work there, and in the last few updates you could hardly get a milestone without doing some serious bot tricks. Achievement servers are to TF2 the same as a moveable pulley to lifting stuff. Or, well, a couple of them. I'll admit though, idling is somewhere on the blurred line between easy-gain and cheating.

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » September 3rd, 2009, 15:32

It has made a bunch of funny drama though, such as upset idlers refusing to heal "halo noobs", or the reverse "moral" players refusing to heal people without halos

spoodie · Post by **spoodie** » September 3rd, 2009, 15:36

Well, I was on an idle server once, I was just testing though. If I don't get a halo I will feel personally insulted by Valve, as if faaabulous Ben himself did a shit in my morning coffee. I'm with these people*.

Am I right in believing you get horns if you did "cheat"?

*retards

Baliame · Post by **Baliame** » September 3rd, 2009, 15:57

Halos are a pretty good distinction though, as far as I've seen so far 99% of the hardcore community, you know the ones that top the scoreboards with thrice the score the enemy team's top player has... idle. Therefore I'd suspect most people with halos are either casuals or noobs, both of which are more or less easy kills. Well, if I didn't get a halo I'm going ballistic on hardcore players who also noticed that. How do I know if I have one anyway?

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » September 3rd, 2009, 16:05

It should be in your backpack somewhere, or maybe shown down the class specific loadout side where hats go.

As for who gets/doesn't get them, I'm not sure if it's just people who used the idler program who don't get them or if it's idler program AND achievement_idle servers.

I joined a couple of achievement_idle servers and just built teleporters that let enemy spies into the little spawn room of my team since they were all afk

Baliame · Post by **Baliame** » September 3rd, 2009, 16:08

I didn't get one then. Good.

Stoat · Post by **Stoat** » September 3rd, 2009, 16:27

I reckon the unobtainable halo alone would be enough to drive OCD idlers nuts

Shada · Post by **Shada** » September 3rd, 2009, 16:29

Baliame wrote:Halos are a pretty good distinction though, as far as I've seen so far 99% of the hardcore community, you know the ones that top the scoreboards with thrice the score the enemy team's top player has... idle. Therefore I'd suspect most people with halos are either casuals or noobs, both of which are more or less easy kills. Well, if I didn't get a halo I'm going ballistic on hardcore players who also noticed that. How do I know if I have one anyway?

CASUAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I got a halo because I thought idling was pointless. Eat it.

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » September 3rd, 2009, 16:40

Shada wrote:I got a halo because I thought idling was pointless. Eat it.

You don't even play any more. You're not even an OH NOOOOOOOOOOO CAAAAAAASUUUUUAAAAL you're a nothing