5punk

Dog Pants wrote:Incidentally, I created the HIVE rounds

They bring me out in a rash.

deject wrote:Maybe if we start using the deteriorating armor rules then we could probably leave the rest of it alone, because like real armor, it will be great for stopping bullets at the start but once you start catching more than a couple, it loses a lot of its effectiveness.

True, but again it involves more rules and more book-keeping. It'll be confusing enough to keep track of your armour as a player, but as a GM with potentially lots of armours to keep track of it's another stat to get confused by.

I'm in the process of putting together a chart of ammo types vs armours for the new and old rules in order to find a medium. The first shows that the real killers are HP, HEAP and HESH, while AP frequently causes light injuries but at higher penetration. Nothing unexpected there then. However, the AP will generally only damage one armour class above the others.

Thing is though, AP might well bypass armour but it causes less damage to flesh. Of course it depends on how detailed you want the realism.

You could add something like 5mm ammo with rapidly deteriorating penetration abilities. It's used at close range to get through all kinds of armour at lower cost, but add any significant range and it's like throwing small pebbles.

Deject - maybe stop burst firing at everything given the cost of the bullets? Can you not shoot aimed shots like grimmie and cause as much damage?

HereComesPete wrote:Deject - maybe stop burst firing at everything given the cost of the bullets? Can you not shoot aimed shots like grimmie and cause as much damage?

I almost never spray and pray. I've done a blind suppressive fire once. I don't think I've even fired a burst at an area. The rest of the time have all been bursts aimed at a target. For example, in this BPN, you might remember me hitting one of the chrome people with 5 10mm bullets in the face. It took another burst from Joose's guy and a shotgun shell to finish him. Now any unarmored enemy would have been completely and utterly destroyed by that attack. Anyone with Heavy EXO (only a couple steps up from the Blocker I wear, really) would take 5 points of bruising instead of 40 damage.

Normally I shoot in single fire anyways, as firing as many bullets as I did is usually quite costly. We were lucky that they had loads of ammo to loot, I saved a good 50-75c on ammo.

I wasn't sure, I just remember you burst firing a coupleof times that I read.

Where does all your monies go? On repairs?

I thought you usually fired burst Deject?
I tend to put all my weight on a single bullet if I can.

Well it depends on how much of a threat I think the enemy is, but I normally go with single fire. I did fire some bursts, but they were aimed at a target, not at a group or an area. The only time I can think of that I did that was the time I shot a bunch of civvies through the smoke on that one BPN with the drug warehouse. My shots are almost always aimed at a target, whether I'm on single or burst.

So far all my money has been spent on ammo, repairs, and the Scout Helmet + toys. I admit the scout helmet has been by far the largest chunk of my money to get, but it's been largely only useful for the A/V stalk for recon and recording videos. If I hadn't bought it, I probably could afford the armor I want at this point.

Deject - He'd rather look cool than alive.

Grimmie wrote:Deject - He'd rather look cool than alive.

Grimmie wrote:Deject - He'd rather look cool than alive.

Sounds reasonable to me...

+1 from me!



Maybe shoot less? There's plenty of talent that isn't used too much. Especially if roman gets a few of those fancy deathsuit mods. And remember to say you're checking the body for monies before someone else does.

5mm already exists, it's called CAF. It's pretty shit though.

What I'm planning on doing is going through the ammo/armour combinations and then tailoring the ammo to do what you'd expect them to. Hopefully it's not too tricky.

HereComesPete wrote:

+1 from me!



Maybe shoot less? There's plenty of talent that isn't used too much. Especially if roman gets a few of those fancy deathsuit mods. And remember to say you're checking the body for monies before someone else does.

Normally we don't shoot very much. This BPN had much longer combat than any of the previous ones did I think. I think I can survive another BPN as it is, and then I can afford better armor.

Dirk is rather quite useful in combat with that blast of his.

These are charts of ammo types vs armour types using the old and new rules. The colours represent:

White - None
Buff - Bruising
Light orange - Light damage, no wound
Orange - Light damage, wound
Dark orange - Moderate damage, no wound
Red - Moderate damage, wound
Dark red - Serious (probably lethal to human) damage

Old rules:


New rules:

Is it me misunderstanding the table, or are some of those colour coding bits in the second table not right?

Yeah, I accidentally shaded in the bits for shotgun ammo that should be white.

You didn't include your HIVE?

Nice tables, that makes working damage out a lot easier, 'cos its there!

I just stuck the ones from the books in so I could get a general idea. I'm looking for trends really, and I'm actually thinking that the original rules work better.

Next BPN is coming, possibly by the end of tonight. I'm considering using the original bullet rules after looking at the charts I posted up there ^. They're not perfect, but they do seem more balanced than the new ones in hindsight.

Once the new BPN starts, I'll be reluctant to change rules until the end to avoid confusion. So speak now if you don't like something or have a suggestion.

Also, buy stuff, spend XP, update your character sheets. Please let me know of any changes.