BEEF: BACON 2

[shot2bits]

just got my first dose of rage from this game

still fail to see how an attacking team thinks 10 snipers sat on a hill covering the couple of guys that actually try to go in and blow stuff up is a good idea.

[Dog Pants]

That happens so often, and it's the reason I've not played recon so much - there's always loads of sniperfags roosting at your spawn point. They score decent kills, but fuck all in the way of real points.

[shot2bits]

That happens so often, and it's the reason I've not played recon so much - there's always loads of sniperfags roosting at your spawn point. They score decent kills, but fuck all in the way of real points.

its something i dont see being too much of a problem in a game with 5punkers as we get on with it ourselves, but on your own its rather frustrating

[buzzmong]

Certainly all ties in with the impressions I've got while playing.

Apart from the mortar strike thing, it tried to touch me in a bad place.

Hmm. I wonder what his stats are, because "effective killers" seems a bit vague, I'm guessing it's probably by Kills Per Minute, otherwise Recon would be top for K/D ratio probably. In which case that's not unexpected considering medics are a supporting class rather than an out and out fighting class, ie, they've another job to do in healing and reviving.

And his stats say they are not unbalanced as a whole, what's that? Aggregate figure of all lmg kills vs smgs or assault or etc...

I'd be interested to know the % of lmg kills that the M60 claims, as I still maintain its better than the others and used much more because of that, I wonder if any of the other stats sites can get that figure.

Still, doesn't look like anything will happen, so can't do anything but put up with it.

[Dog Pants]

Do you think it's possible that it's a problem created by the players rather than the game? As soon as a few people start complaining about this or that being too powerful, the natural thing to do is think "well I'll have some of that too", so everyone uses the M60. That means everyone starts getting killed by the M60, notices that they're dying a lot to it, look at the stats, which show loads of people are dying to it, and complain more about it, giving it more publicity. There's probably some truth in there, but I don't think the stats are as solid facts as you think. They need context. The M60 probably has a massive proportion of LMG kills, but that only means it's popular, not that it's overpowered. I think your kills per minute is probably more accurate, if it's based on a ration of time spent using the weapon to how many kills are got with it.

[shot2bits]

Do you think it's possible that it's a problem created by the players rather than the game? As soon as a few people start complaining about this or that being too powerful, the natural thing to do is think "well I'll have some of that too", so everyone uses the M60. That means everyone starts getting killed by the M60, notices that they're dying a lot to it, look at the stats, which show loads of people are dying to it, and complain more about it, giving it more publicity. There's probably some truth in there, but I don't think the stats are as solid facts as you think. They need context. The M60 probably has a massive proportion of LMG kills, but that only means it's popular, not that it's overpowered. I think your kills per minute is probably more accurate, if it's based on a ration of time spent using the weapon to how many kills are got with it.

jumping into this midway, ive not much idea what your talking about, i assume its something like the guns all have stats of the total kills or some such, which in a game like this, after taking into the parameters set for the gun ie kickback, range, spray etc, there is also the individual players skill to be taken into consideration, not everyone has the same ability in these games, so the stats arent reliable for actually seeing how effective the gun is, but rather how effective the player base is as a whole using that gun, and as you say how popular it is

[buzzmong]

Oh, I'd considered that, I think I even touched on it a few times back.

From what I've experienced, I've pretty always come of worse in an PKM/M249 vs M60 fight unless I get the drop on them, and I found the M60 does kill faster regardless due to having a fair bit more damage per bullet.

I accept that it'll compound the issue, but when you feel in a game you need to swap to said weapon to actually be able to compete against it rather than fighting an uphill battle, you know there's something a bit wrong.

I'm going to acog it up when I play again at the end of the week, might as well start counter sniping operations to improve my medic k/d.

[Anhamgrimmar]

Oh, I'd considered that, I think I even touched on it a few times back.

From what I've experienced, I've pretty always come of worse in an PKM/M249 vs M60 fight unless I get the drop on them, and I found the M60 does kill faster regardless due to having a fair bit more damage per bullet.

I accept that it'll compound the issue, but when you feel in a game you need to swap to said weapon to actually be able to compete against it rather than fighting an uphill battle, you know there's something a bit wrong.

I'm going to acog it up when I play again at the end of the week, might as well start counter sniping operations to improve my medic k/d.

Just as an aside: Pump action shotgun, with slugs makes a most effective anti-sniper gun. And the rage comments you get when you HS some lazy recon in the head from miles away is a sight to behold

[Dog Pants]

Those slugs have bullet modeling then? I have wondered, although without even iron sights it's not going to be easy hitting snipers. The first shotgun (I forget the name), with slug rounds and magnum ammo will one-shot at close range, although I expect that drops off pretty quickly as the distance gets larger. The auto-shotty (Saiga is it?) was horrible though.

[buzzmong]

Those slugs have bullet modeling then? I have wondered, although without even iron sights it's not going to be easy hitting snipers. The first shotgun (I forget the name), with slug rounds and magnum ammo will one-shot at close range, although I expect that drops off pretty quickly as the distance gets larger. The auto-shotty (Saiga is it?) was horrible though.

Saiga is semi, like the Spas, the USAS-12 is the auto iirc.

Saiga is horrible anyway as a bog standard gun, I think it needs magnum and/or slugs regardless.

[HereComesPete]

The 870.

I hated the saiga at first but I do like a bit of magnum ammo shotty death with it, I've torn up whole teams before a reload before.

I seem to recall that Berk mentioned that there isn't really bullet modelling at all other than drop. So they still carry the same power out to extreme range.

[Dog Pants]

Even with magnum/slug I found it to be useless. I got the bronze star and moved straight on. Anyway, the thing I posted in the guide thread noted that bullets barely drop at all, and are modeled in three categories; bullet (hardly any drop), sniper (more realistic drop) and MG (inbetween I think). But shotguns firing shot presumable are different again, so I was wondering if slug models it like a bullet, or an extended shot, or something else entirely.

[HereComesPete]

In terms of drop its like the bullets I believe. I've certainly slugged someone at a fucking ridiculous range before now. Like Anham said, it's fun to tote that against a bunch of shit snipers who hang round at the tops of hills.

[deject]

I used the Saiga a lot when I was doing recon at first because I am almost entirely worthless with the M24 and the T 88 Sniper. You do have to get ridiculously close for it to be effective, but with the magazine capacity upgrade it can be devastating. I just hate this notion that shotguns can only hit targets 20 feet away before being totally useless. It seems to have started with COD4, and is catching on, but it's utterly wrong.

[Dog Pants]

I'm sure there were games before COD4 that did that wish shotguns, but you're right. If they were so terrible at range why would people use them for hunting, as they were intended?

[Stoat]

I'm sure there were games before COD4 that did that wish shotguns, but you're right. If they were so terrible at range why would people use them for hunting, as they were intended?

Because hunting shotguns have long-ass barrels. Games tend to have sawn-off or short-barrels, because it neatly fills the space of 'powerful, spread, short-range', whereas 'powerful, long-range, accurate' is kind of crowded. If nothing else it's about visual shorthand.

[Dog Pants]

True, but even shotguns designed for combat are nothing like the ones portrayed in games. Those are more like sawn offs or trench guns. The game mechanic is understandable, but when you can't hit a target 15m away they can barely classed as guns any more.

[Roman Totale]

I think the knife is overpowered.

[Dog Pants]

I was playing with the shotty snipping a bit today, and it works quite well. No cries of hax, disappointingly, but I was getting good kills at decent ranges. I nearly did the C4 trick today too (did drop the building several times, which is the cheapy way), but 8 C4 didn't kill it. How many do you need?

[Dr. kitteny berk]

12 C4, doesn't matter if you have the explosive perks or not, apparently.

Easier to just take the building down, but fuckloads less points :p