EU Considering Regulating Sale of Violent Games

[Joose]

Fuck that. I wanna see the Eion vs. Joose Argument.

pfft!

[Lateralus]

Haha, this. I very much share Joose's opinion, but feel that he could argue the point much better then I could just now. I are teh tired.

[Roman Totale]

I read once that burglars are more terrified by crossbows than guns.







That is all.

[FatherJack]

Fuck that. I wanna see the Eion vs. Joose Argument.

Yeah, everyone form a huddle around the scrap, but not so it's obvious to the dinner ladies.

Er...I mean no fighting here.

/stern headmaster

[Dr. kitteny berk]

I read once that burglars are more terrified by crossbows than guns.

That is all.

Doesn't surprise me.

Crossbows are rarely replicas in this country, unlike guns which usually are.

[Dr. kitteny berk]

uh, no, actually. The statistic is relating to homicides, not suicides.

Does this include family members and accidents by family members?

Perhaps if said people had no guns, they've have bludgeoned their family to death with a sledgehammer? (Personally, I'd rather be shot)

Or, in the case of accidental discharge (pffft.) Maybe they should look at educating people in gun handling/use, Think sex ed*.

Maybe even in schools, so kids can check a gun is empty (if they manage to get their hands on one (which they shouldn't, but do anyway)) and know how to handle (IE. put the safety on, put the gun down and get an adult) a firearm, if they find it.

However, doing it like that would still allow for accidents due to stupid adults (again, education/kids getting guns)

Then again, in this country, where guns are illegal, I knew (when I was 16) a couple of people (my age) with pistols (and a few ex military with other toys.)


Gun. Control. Does. Not. Work.**

If someone wants a gun, he'll have one (remember, shotguns and rifles are fairly easy to get in the UK)

How about giving us some real statistics, like killing of people in (usually) non-violent crimes such as burglary. Then how many burglars have left pretty sharpish when a gun was pointed at them.

As far as murders go, people will use the best weapon available to them if they want to make someone dead. Whether it's a pillow, a knife, a brick, a crossbow or a gun, if they want to kill someone, they will. Granted, I suspect using a gun makes it easier to do mentally, but it's still killing someone.

In short, people are always gonna kill people, criminals are always gonna have whatever fucking weapon they want, everyone else is gonna take they best they're allowed.

*Teaching someone how to use something they shouldn't use, so they know how to use it safely when the time comes.
**Whether restricting guns entirely, licensing certain, allowing most guns etc. etc.


Edit: Also, given you're only citing America where, which is effectively a country based on people with ADD/ADHD failing to sit still, I suggest we look at statistics involving ADD and other autistic spectrum disorders.

Also, given the fact above, maybe it'd be worth looking at the swiss crime rates (where guns are effectively compulsory for males under 30)
Maybe Italy too (ISTR they revised their gun laws to be jolly good fun recently) so there should be a before/after comparison to be made.

[Dr. kitteny berk]

Joose can't reply for some reason, perhaps his knife is blunt.


GUNS WHIN.

[eion]

Joose can't reply for some reason, perhaps his knife is blunt.

*buries a sharpening stone at Joose's feet*

[Joose]

Joose can't reply for some reason, perhaps his knife is blunt.


GUNS WHIN.

Aha! It was just the quote button on that post that was borked. Hax, sir. Hax.

Anway, I need to go to work now. After work argument resume tiem!

[Woo Elephant Yeah]

Nobody should own a gun unless they are a member of the police/army.

I'd even go so far as stopping farmers here in the UK from owning one, as there are plenty of other methods of killing creatures on farmland without leaving the door open for the gun industry to sale them to the public.

Why on earth should "anyone" other than those mentioned at the top of my post ever need a gun?

It's a shame that guns were written into the American constitution, as it's too late now to go back.
Just look at how well the Middle East has done with their free for all attitude on weaponry

[Fear]

The problem with your view Mr Berk is that in the UK burglars do not, for the most part, carry a gun. If they do they are seldom real or capable of firing.

If you were to allow households to own a gun for "self defence" then every burglar would have to carry a gun during his crimes also, for their defence.

This in turn increases the likelihood of someone being fatally shot.

As things are now, the most people normally get is a good beating, which is preferable to be shot. Beatings don't often kill.

You will never stop someone killing another person if they want to. You don't even need a weapon to do that.

[Dr. kitteny berk]

Nobody should own a gun unless they are a member of the police/army.

Maybe so, but that won't stop bad guys having guns.

I'd even go so far as stopping farmers here in the UK from owning one, as there are plenty of other methods of killing creatures on farmland without leaving the door open for the gun industry to sale them to the public.

The gun buying here is *very* strictly controlled, and there's nothing quite as good as a shotgun for killing little things, and rifles for killing big things

Why on earth should "anyone" other than those mentioned at the top of my post ever need a gun?

To protect themselves from the bad men who will generally have the best weapon they can get (for the sake of argument, a gun)

It's a shame that guns were written into the American constitution, as it's too late now to go back.

Great country.

Just look at how well the Middle East has done with their free for all attitude on weaponry

Before they had rifles, they used bows and swords, before that, hands and rocks.

They're gonna fucking kill each other, they may as well do the job right

[Mr. Johnson]

i simply do not approve of people having guns, despite the fact that my dad has a couple, period.

[Dr. kitteny berk]

The problem with your view Mr Berk is that in the UK burglars do not, for the most part, carry a gun. If they do they are seldom real or capable of firing.

If you were to allow households to own a gun for "self defence" then every burglar would have to carry a gun during his crimes also, for their defence.

This in turn increases the likelihood of someone being fatally shot.

As things are now, the most people normally get is a good beating, which is preferable to be shot. Beatings don't often kill.

You will never stop someone killing another person if they want to. You don't even need a weapon to do that.

This is all true.

Hence me always having a very sharp knife within arms length, 2 more in the room, then there's the kitchen knives and a couple of crossbows in the wardrobe...

[Woo Elephant Yeah]

...

What a terrific argument

[eion]

Nobody should own a gun unless they are a member of the police/army.

Why on earth should "anyone" other than those mentioned at the top of my post ever need a gun?

<snip>

It's a shame that guns were written into the American constitution, as it's too late now to go back.

The Second Amendment was written into the Bill of Rights (not the Constitution) because the United States had just won a war of independence in which the government (you know, the police/army et cetera) was overthrown and replaced with (what was supposed to be) a better, less oppressive government. It's pretty hard to stop government tyranny when the government has all of the guns and the citizenry is disarmed.

The way I see it, gun ownership is the civil liberty that protects all of your other freedoms, be it from bad people or from the government.

Even if the government isn't oppressive, do you really trust the government - a generally incompetent bunch of fuckwits, to put it mildly - to protect you from everyone, like a loving parent? I'd rather take some responsibility myself, thanks very much.

Criminals will get their hands on guns, no matter what. Fact. Responsible gun ownership is not dangerous. Guns are just tools, like hammers or cars. A gun does not kill - it sends a little projectile at high speed in more-or-less a straight line to whatever it's pointed at. I think if more people in the UK had actually been taught responsible firearms use, they'd realise that.

Finally, a little anecdote: in the city where I used to live, every firearm up to and including heavy machine guns and miniguns was legal to own, so long as you were over 21, weren't a felon, passed various background checks, et cetera.
On the other hand, the neighbouring city just across the river basically outlawed all firearms - long guns were allowed to be in your house so long as they were locked and unloaded, as I recall, but pistols and machine guns were absolutely verboten.
So, which city do you think had the higher gun crime rate (just actual crimes, not mere possession)?
Go on, guess.

[Dog Pants]

Whatever the pros and cons of gun ownership, I think it's be very bad for the average citizen in the UK. Not because of the extra risk (real or not) of getting shot, but because of the ridiculous justice system that would see more normal people in prison because they'd tried to defend themselves against criminals.

Although I'm not going to get into the argument, I can say with conviction that I use firearms as part of my job and I have a very healthy respect for them because of it.

[FatherJack]

So, which city do you think had the higher gun crime rate (just actual crimes, not mere possession)?
Go on, guess.

Obviously the one without pistols, as all the people from the other side jumped across the river and shot them as they only had crap guns to defend themselves with.

[eion]

Obviously the one without pistols, as all the people from the other side jumped across the river and shot them as they only had crap guns to defend themselves with.

Actually, no, because certain groups in the place with strict gun control remained extremely heavily armed.

[spoodie]

Guns are just tools, like hammers or cars.

Expect hammers and cars are design with the sole purpose of harming or killing things.