5punk

They will make you money, but building in high population or high yield areas at the start will hurt your cargo rating (one of the things used to determine your score) as you won't be able to afford enough vehicles to deliver all the cargo. Of course, as noted, with money you can expand quicker and pick up the slack.

I haven't played with the AI, but he sounds like a bit of a cupcake.

It's also worth remembering that coal scales really, really well, too, just a matter of keeping ratings up, and getting a power station far enough away to pay out well, but close enough to keep the station empty.

Frizberk industries still makes a great deal of profit from a few coal mines, with some trains pulling in 1mil a year.

FrizBerk Industries
We're Not Evil™

Soon opening the new Frerk Biz™ Franchise in a city near you!

No hamsters were harmed (much) in the making of this post

Here's some stuff on junctions and signals from my experimentation.

The main reason you'll want junctions is either to reduce the amount of track you have to build over long distances, or to join lines together to make a rail network. Building long lines of more than two tracks is expensive and fiddly, whereas utilising existing track to ferry new cargo lines nearby is economical as well as pleasing.

Here's a basic example of sending multiple trains down one track:



I put standard two-way block signals (the one on the bottom left of the menu) just before where the tracks join, so when a train enters the middle section, it's marked as off-limits to all the other lines and other trains arriving will have to wait. I repeat this basic signalling method on all my junctions - it might not be the most optimised, but the trains cannot crash.

Since you have to expect trains from any direction on any track (they sometimes turn around when stopped by a signal or need repair) one track isn't usually enough, it might be okay for a supply line or dropoff point where the trains spend most of the time in the stations, but not for a main line, so here's an idea of how it could be expanded:



Since it would be expensive and perhaps impossible to have seven dedicated lines going across the map, this shares two lines between them. Again, this is best for trains that spend a lot of time in the station, add too many, or ones that use the tracks a lot like passenger trains, and you'll have gridlock.

The other use for junctions is to join two routes, here's the simplest T-junction where every line is accessible from every other:



That's a lot of signals close to each other though, so it's not very good for high-volume junctions. You could remove the three middle sets of signals from the main line, but then the whole junction could only handle one train at a time.

Here is a more elegant solution:



Which should work for most junctions unless they're very busy, but still has a few places where trains can get trapped, though having a greater distance between the junctions (ie: your longest train length) would help.

One solution to trapped trains is to use "escape" depots:



Here trains stuck at the signals have the option to go to the depot if they are waiting for so long that they need servicing. It's also a bodge for having too many trains, as once they are in the depot another train can use the track (or depot) and they won't come out again until the track's clear.

I like to keep pickup and dropoff for non-passenger cargo off the main line, so other trains don't have to wait for them to load, so here's my basic dropoff station design:



Since you want to have signals and depots at your junctions, it's important to leave enough space to build them, here's the smallest possible version of my dropoff station:



It is possible to go overboard with the escape depots, putting one in every possible place a train could get trapped:



I find it's best to merge tracks down to one or two lines before attempting a major junctions - where, for example would you put the signals on this monstrosity:



Of course, you could just do it this way and let the trains decide:



Hope these are of some use.

You can also safely place a lot of trains on a line like this:



Note that the signals in front of the stations are two-way path signals, but the ones on the lanes are one-way signals.

It's very useful for electric trains / monorails / maglevs on passenger lines as you can queue trains, they're faster than road vehicles and they can carry more. Train lines are monopolized by companies so there's no traffic congestion either.

I also noticed that industries seem to release only 2/3rds (67%) of their products tops to one player.

Buy shares in people, even if 90% of them fail, one might end up worth a hundred million dollars, then you can sell them for epic profits.

Right ideas, wrong signals! I've finally got my head around how to do signalling properly, and it's remarkably simple (when you know how etc). As you have discovered, block signals will eventually cause traffic jams, hence the need for escape depots (which have built in Path Signals).

Change all the Block Signals for Path Signals at the entry points, and use One Way Path Signals to stop returning trains going down the wrong track. You can be very sparing, but it's highly efficient and will prevent traffic jams, grid lock and let more trains use the junction/station entries at once if there's a free route.

Block Signals are actually used very rarely, and the pre-signals even less. There are some fundamental rules about the pathfinding you need to know to understand how signalling works:

1. Trains always prefer to turn right.
2. If a junction has Two-Way Block Signals, trains will take the first available green light, even if it means going away from destination.
3. If a junction has One-Way Block Signals, trains will wait at the red light on their destination route, regardless if the other route is green.
4. One-Way Block signals cannot be passed from behind - pretty obvious really - but they will make the train turn around.
5. Path Based Signals can be passed from behind. One Way PBS cannot be passed from behind.

And a rule of thumb for all networks: "split before merge". That is to say, always split trains off the main line before merging them onto the branch line. This avoids packing the shared lines on your junction with traffic from both directions.

If we're still playing by the end of the weekend I'll put a little guide up for Path Signals (you can pretty much ignore all the others). Until then, that link I posted before is the best resource.

I'm basically lazy with the signals and like the way the standard block signals put down signals for both directions at once, so crashes never happen.

It's clear though that they can create traffic jams as trains can get halfway through the junctions before encountering red signals on the way out, which were intended as entry gates.

I get that path signals are pretty much safe, in that a train won't cross them unless its path is clear, but am nervous about one-way signals in general as the trains have a tendency to double-back on themselves where you do not anticipate, plus it's a bit fiddly to make sure you've placed the signal facing the way you intended.

I've experimented with putting ludicrous numbers of trains onto tracks that can't cope with them, and with having a basic loop of main line connecting everything via my dropoff points above and just increasing the numbers and seeing how it copes. While block signals prevent any crashes, they do create some very spazzy behaviour.

The real rail network is basically two lines everywhere and they seem to manage. I think they're very strict about keeping each line separate for each direction though, as real trains cannot reverse as easily as TTD ones. The problem with TTD is that trains change direction so readily that planning anything like the real world system quickly goes wrong, like when you've upgraded a train line to maglev, but missed one small section.

Just been playing with one way path signals.

Dead easy, medium length loop track (single track separating out to 3 at the stations), signals every 10 squares or so, loaded with a fuckpile of trains (20 odd) everything just runs around nice and fast, no crashes.

I find loops difficult to set up, because inevitably my resources find themselves in roughly a line, so a return track seems extravagant. I always try for a double line with crossover points so that trains have the opportunity to avoid each other. As FJ said, you just can't rely on them not doubling back on themselves and going the wrong way down a track (although one way signals could help stop this).

I've had mixed success. Sometimes it works nicely, others the trains just refuse to use the other track and all get clogged up on the same one. It seems more likely to create gridlock with a main trunk line and offshoots, presumably because there are more junctions with a single line leading to a double line. Also, using lots of path signals on this system causes weirdness in the blocks, because they're different sizes depending on the direction you look at them from. So you can get trains with seemingly clear paths sat waiting (and causing queues) because of something much further up the line. Two way block signals on straights seem a deecnt way to break them up and prevent this, but again I've had only limited success.

Seems to me that a loop is much more efficient than double lines, as you're very limited with a double line, as stuff wants to go both ways down both tracks.

One way pathing signals horse the trains to go the direction you want, and the only limit to how many trains you can fit on is how much track you have.

This Guide explains it much better than I could. felcher the guide for OTTD only using the buttons at the top left.

Meanwhile I'll put some step by step pics together for building a Roll On-Roll Off station which can be easily expanded to allow lots of trains.

Here are some pics to demonstrate what I've been yabbering on about Path Based Signals (PBS) and stuff. In all cases my trains drive on the right (as indicated by the big red arrows).

This is a basic junction from the main line onto a small branch line. You could add another PBS on the branch line just before it joins the main line if you want to minimize the time the crossover bit is reserved.



This second junction is the same thing, but it uses a bridge to avoid blocking the main line at all. It'd be wise to use longer entry/exit bits to give your big freight trains time to speed up and slow down as well.



And here's the Ro-Ro station at the end of the line. It's very easy to add more platforms as needed. That's all there is to it really.



There's some interesting stuff you can do with parking areas, prioritising routes, freight lanes etc but that's all in the link I posted above if you want to see more.

I've been having problems with making loops in that they require a lot of space, specifically flat land with no farms on it. My probems arise when I've not got the money to build it properly and have to bodge it with single track bridges or tunnels, or single lines due to terrain and farmland.

So I've had a think about it, and the reasons are actually fairly obvious if you think about progression. There's a good reason to start off with coal mines, and it's not just that they generate good income. Without an end product to ship, you can have a single line at the beginning of the game and make money without having to expand. As soon as you bring in any other industry you start needing to ship products over a network and that's where the restrictions start having an effect, sapping your cash as you blast out farmland, build tunnels and bridges, and raise and lower land. So while you may well make very good money off an oil run, since you need to ship the goods out of the refinery you start having to compromise your layout as the tracks get more claustrophobic. Later in the game you can afford to build over farms, move earth about, and lay double bridges, but at the beginning you just don't make a return on it quick enough.

So, my point is to avoid anything complicated until at least the point where you can happily pay off your loan. You don't have to stick with coal runs right off, there's a progression in the complexity of the various industries;

1. Coal
2. Passengers/mail
3. Oil or wood
4. Farms/iron

Those coal runs will probably always make a decent profit if they're managed properly and expanded as necessary, but the beginning game seems pretty tough and overstretching has seen me struggle a lot recently where I was having no problem when I first played thet game. It's kind of noddy really, but probably quite easy to miss when you get a little confident.

Dog Pants wrote:So, my point is to avoid anything complicated until at least the point where you can happily pay off your loan.

I kinda agree with that, build simple, but smart, leave enough space to extend a station in both directions and if possible to build a loop in.

It won't hurt if you make sharp turns leaving a station, as the trains will already be going slow.

That'll leave you with a cheap and simple line that'll hold a few trains with no issues, without the added cost of multiple stations or having to nuke and rebuild early on.

Have we any tips on developing industries and populations? I often find myself with declining production facilities leading to unprofitable trains running mostly empty. I know a few things about it, but I'm obviously doing something wrong.

For towns/cities, the most important thing is passengers, mostly. bus routes around in circles will often do enough to get things started. In sub-arctic, food helps a lot, in desert, food and water are essential.


For Industries, you want high station ratings, the higher the rating, the more likely the resource will grow. Often the trick is to run multiple short trains, rather than one big one, this makes the movement of stuff much more fluid. (this goes for factories as well as mines)

Station ratings are based off how much of the available stuff you shift and how long it stays on the platform.

Ideally, you'd like to move 100% immediately, but it's just not possible.

67% should be pretty easy to do with 2 suitable trains.

Frizberk has managed 83% reliably, and nurtured a coal mine from ~400 tonnes, to ~2200. using enough trains to keep the station empty as much as possible, and lines the right length.

Mostly, I'd say running 2 lines is often better, try not to travel too far, especially with items that don't hold value.

I didn't get to sleep until about 3am last night because every time I closed my eyes all I could see were GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING TRAIN TRACKS!


I HATE YOU ALL!

I ended up dreaming about coal trains today.

I blame pants.

Ahhhhhhh. Ignorance is bliss!