The definitive 5punkorp rebuilding thread (tm)
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centerededgedesign
- Optimus Prime
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: February 5th, 2006, 18:43
- Location: Farmington, MN, US
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Ask yourself > Was it the fun of flying it worth the grinding of missions and all this damn LP I'll have to spend at the end of the process?
Oh, and Dres is now a CEO-type being! I can't believe the day has come!!! Not only am I back in Eve, I'm in a position of power to do some great good and/or evil......
Oh, and Fea, I needed to relog to directorize you, but forgot as it was sleepy tiem. I'll get you all sorted tonite, promise!!!
Oh, and Dres is now a CEO-type being! I can't believe the day has come!!! Not only am I back in Eve, I'm in a position of power to do some great good and/or evil......
Oh, and Fea, I needed to relog to directorize you, but forgot as it was sleepy tiem. I'll get you all sorted tonite, promise!!!
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centerededgedesign
- Optimus Prime
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: February 5th, 2006, 18:43
- Location: Farmington, MN, US
- Contact:
Ok, now on to phase one. Frigate procurement and placement. I'll try to get frigs located into each of the noob systems I'm going to recruit at, (anyone know a definite list for each race?) and prepare for the week of 4/7/08 when I will be travelling and have alot of evening time for recruiting. So I'll be needing to procure/move/fit about 80 frigs over the next week and a half to prepare for this. (And train up on frigs/weapons so I can fit them all!) Any help/advice here would be greatly appreciated!
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centerededgedesign
- Optimus Prime
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: February 5th, 2006, 18:43
- Location: Farmington, MN, US
- Contact:
I was thinking dirt-simple fits, possibly even civilian, so that even the most poorly rolled noob can get into these and shoot at other poorly rolled noobs, (also cheap!) No tank, scrams, webs, ECM. In fact, I'm not sure what I can reliably put in the mids/lows for uber-noobs that might not simply be a waste of time and isk. Hmm, perhaps my simple little plan needs a bit more thought....
(I'm trying to avoid a constant pitfall of mine, making things too complicated...) Perhaps this will take a little research w/ a noob creation session.
As to the 'where', I plan on doing this near noob-hubs so as to avoid having to move all these ships once fitted. I had originally planned to corp-insure them, but a) was a point of making things more complicated b) would require offices, and c) might not work (untested). Just mass-buyinig the bits and trading to each other for assembling seems much simpler/quicker.
Also, I'm building/buying 20 frigs for each race, so not too many to fit in each area. I figure the buying/moving will be a larger chunk of the time, but nothing Dres Haulage & Co MK II can't handle.
On a total aside, does anyone have any capital component bpc's I can use for an Obelisk that they'd part with? Tis the very tip of a large/long project I plan to complete on my own, but if anyone has any bits they'd like to be rid of, I'll buy them off you at reasonable mates rates.
Thanks Fea, I'll keep this updated as I figure out the smaller details. What's the lowest level Caldar/Amarr/Minmitar/Gallente frigs that EVERYONE would be able to fly? I had thought the Incursus for Gallente, but that might need Frig 3, not sure, and at work ftl....
(I'm trying to avoid a constant pitfall of mine, making things too complicated...) Perhaps this will take a little research w/ a noob creation session.
As to the 'where', I plan on doing this near noob-hubs so as to avoid having to move all these ships once fitted. I had originally planned to corp-insure them, but a) was a point of making things more complicated b) would require offices, and c) might not work (untested). Just mass-buyinig the bits and trading to each other for assembling seems much simpler/quicker.
Also, I'm building/buying 20 frigs for each race, so not too many to fit in each area. I figure the buying/moving will be a larger chunk of the time, but nothing Dres Haulage & Co MK II can't handle.
On a total aside, does anyone have any capital component bpc's I can use for an Obelisk that they'd part with? Tis the very tip of a large/long project I plan to complete on my own, but if anyone has any bits they'd like to be rid of, I'll buy them off you at reasonable mates rates.
Thanks Fea, I'll keep this updated as I figure out the smaller details. What's the lowest level Caldar/Amarr/Minmitar/Gallente frigs that EVERYONE would be able to fly? I had thought the Incursus for Gallente, but that might need Frig 3, not sure, and at work ftl....
n00bs start with alot better skills these days than when we started so you can give them some decent setups to start with, I've came up with some PVE oriented setups if you want them:
[Punisher]
Small Armor Repairer I
Damage Control I
Adaptive Nano Plating I
Heat Sink I
1MN Afterburner I
Stasis Webifier I
Dual Light Pulse Laser I, Standard S
Dual Light Pulse Laser I, Standard S
Dual Light Pulse Laser I, Standard S
[Kestrel]
Power Diagnostic System I
Nanofiber Internal Structure I
1MN Afterburner I
Small Shield Booster I
Small Shield Extender I
Rocket Launcher I, Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Foxfire Rocket
[Incursus]
Small Armor Repairer I
Damage Control I
1MN Afterburner I
Stasis Webifier I
Cap Recharger I
Light Electron Blaster I, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster I, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster I, Antimatter Charge S
Hobgoblin I x1
[Rifter]
Small Armor Repairer I
Damage Control I
200mm Reinforced Steel Plates I
1MN Afterburner I
Stasis Webifier I
Cap Recharger I
200mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma S
200mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma S
200mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma S
Most people, if not everyone, start with frigate 3 so getting into the ships is no problem. All of those setups fit with electronics and engineering at lvl 2 at the most and all of the modules only require a few level 1 skills which they may already have. They could just leave certain modules offline and activate them as they train for them.
[Punisher]
Small Armor Repairer I
Damage Control I
Adaptive Nano Plating I
Heat Sink I
1MN Afterburner I
Stasis Webifier I
Dual Light Pulse Laser I, Standard S
Dual Light Pulse Laser I, Standard S
Dual Light Pulse Laser I, Standard S
[Kestrel]
Power Diagnostic System I
Nanofiber Internal Structure I
1MN Afterburner I
Small Shield Booster I
Small Shield Extender I
Rocket Launcher I, Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Foxfire Rocket
[Incursus]
Small Armor Repairer I
Damage Control I
1MN Afterburner I
Stasis Webifier I
Cap Recharger I
Light Electron Blaster I, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster I, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster I, Antimatter Charge S
Hobgoblin I x1
[Rifter]
Small Armor Repairer I
Damage Control I
200mm Reinforced Steel Plates I
1MN Afterburner I
Stasis Webifier I
Cap Recharger I
200mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma S
200mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma S
200mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma S
Most people, if not everyone, start with frigate 3 so getting into the ships is no problem. All of those setups fit with electronics and engineering at lvl 2 at the most and all of the modules only require a few level 1 skills which they may already have. They could just leave certain modules offline and activate them as they train for them.
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centerededgedesign
- Optimus Prime
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: February 5th, 2006, 18:43
- Location: Farmington, MN, US
- Contact:
-
centerededgedesign
- Optimus Prime
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: February 5th, 2006, 18:43
- Location: Farmington, MN, US
- Contact:
Excellent work, Fea! Much appreciated too!
I've got Elotane doing the same thing, but without the office for the moment, at her noob system. I figure since we're at a Caldari area in Goram, might as well start there! It'll start our nubs off w/ a higher standing w/ all the agents.
Now, how to reward you...
I've got Elotane doing the same thing, but without the office for the moment, at her noob system. I figure since we're at a Caldari area in Goram, might as well start there! It'll start our nubs off w/ a higher standing w/ all the agents.
Now, how to reward you...
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centerededgedesign
- Optimus Prime
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: February 5th, 2006, 18:43
- Location: Farmington, MN, US
- Contact:
-
centerededgedesign
- Optimus Prime
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: February 5th, 2006, 18:43
- Location: Farmington, MN, US
- Contact:
This is an edited copy of an email I sent out, I will edit it occasionaly as I refine/correct this plan.
Something that a quick/small gang with Elo this weekend made me think of is the 'structure' of the new 5punkorp. Anything large needs structure to keep it from crushing itself, even playground equipment! So between typing to 4 people at once, watching local for Goons, and trying to keep my mining lasers active, I looked at the gang setup. It TOTALLY reminded me of the hierarchy in the military. Privates reporting to a seargent, seargent's reporting to a First Seargent, First Seargent's working with a Platoon Leader, Platoon Leaders working with a Company Commander (please excuse the US Army titles, they are in no way indicative of the titles I plan to use in 5punkorp!). Each piece of the 'structure' has people above and below them, but nobody has to worry about the whole group. If one is lost, somebody can move up to take their place. But each unit from squad/platoon/company builds on the strengths of the whole, each group is 'good' at something, even if they're all good at the same thing. The focus isn't on individuals. So I thought of how this could work WITHIN the game mechanics.
And I came up with 'teams'. For the first bunch of recruits, I'm going to build teams. The first 10 will be 'red team', (From Star Wars, ofc). I'll take them with me on recruiting runs as 'security' for the low sec tournaments, giving them jobs and making them feel integral to the process. I'll probably have them act as squad leaders as we build the scale of the tournaments, getting them involved in FC'ing from an early age. (Each red team pilot will get 2 noob prospect pilots for the tournament. The prospects that get the red team pilot approval can join, and the red team pilot that wins the tournament can get promoted to the 'next' level and be in charge of a red team squad.) So the red team will be the first 10. After the next tournament/s with red team assisting, there will be 10 more pilots, with 4 red team pilots being squad leaders to supervise 4 pilots each, and have some gang leader experience to head their own small operations. Keep rinsing and repeating with ever growing groups to go 'shoot-em-up' with, while they're also gaining experience, fitting their ships better, and spreading their interests. When 'red team' hits 40 pilots, (it will take awhile, patience is key, don't worry), we have a decision to make. If there are enough people with shared interests, we will split off a group from red team to become another color of team. Hopefully the group will have enough pilots to make the split even. These will now be the first and second platoons of 5punkorp, with a requirement that anytime membership falls below 20 pilots, that the group must recruit back to 40. The groups will be autonomous, heading their own activities, with the exception of times of war.
Now, for the incentives and combat groups that I've envisioned. Squads without a squad leader will be frig wolf-packs. A squad leader will fly a cruiser, and hopefully have some support capability. Platoon leader a BS. So, as people get skills for shiny ships, they'll want to fly them, thus creating incentive to recruit/train pilots. A condition of Promotion is the pilots to follow you! Of course, some people are not born recruiters, and others are not born leaders. You can train some, but this is a game, and not everyone will stick with it. So people can also earn promotions through support. i.e. industry, support ships in combat, (a medical Domi?!?), and so on. The way these pilots can 'move up' in ship class will be standings work with npc corps, lp store goodies, or industry. i.e. your mission runners and miners can earn fleet ships to support fleet ops by doing what they do best. The more they do it, the better ships they can earn for fleet ops.
This brings us to something that I think is a little complicated. Fleet ships are corp property. Not to be lost to gate camps on your own time. So somehow we'll need to have a method of tracking whom has earned a ship, if it has been built/bought, and the state of the corp insurance on it. I envision a director/platoon leader access sheet on Google for this. Dishing them out can be done over distance by any director using the contract system though, and returned to the corp hangar by anyone. Kinda like issuing weapons to the soldiers, they're only available when needed, and secured the rest of the time. This way fleet ops can happen at a few minutes notice, without any worries of 'I don't have a ship, gimme a few minutes to put one together!' Things such as standard loadout, range of weapons, and such will be standardized, as well as the skill requirements for promotion!
I can hear your thoughts, and this ^ will be optional! I don't forsee too many wanting to leave their buddies though, the thrill of joint accomplishments being such a great thing in this game. Joint mining ops with a mentality like this will be uber though, imagine a security horse of 5 BS's, 20 Cruisers, and 80 frigs skirmishing-to-hull while 20 Hulks and 20 haulers mine like crazy with a Command ship boosting and a freighter hauling ore from a POS set up for the op. Ships will be lost, but a freighter load of cruisers/frigs won't cost too much, not compared to the mining hardware involved! Toss in a Rorq to compress, and you could move a freighters worth of mins with a freighter! (math is assumed!).
Of course, scale that back for the short term while the corp is only fielding only 2 BS's, 8 cruisers, and 32 frigs, (42 pilots, red and blue team). That's quite a crew right there. Oh, and for the people that don't get promoted? They can still be professional privates and earn their AF's, those are still frigs! As are interceptors and such, (interdictors are the T2 cruisers, right?) Of course, they would have to buy them on their own (or possibly earn as a reward), since they can't be corp insured to full value. But the corp could probably sell them to them at a discount if our industrial side grows well enough. Directly recruiting miners might prove harder though, I don't know if a mining tournament would be very successful. Perhaps mining in local at a noob hub and offering gang boosts and talking up ship fits and skills will help though. But good industry will be critical, although that might be better kept seperate in Fw4ppers or some other alt corp to avoid war decs. When we have enough pilots to worry about it, we'll make that choice!
My only hope is that I actually have to worry about having too many 5punkers. Otherwise my goal is recruit recruit recruit! That, and regain my isk stores so I can T2 fit an Ishtar!
One bit I realized I had missed is 'mandatory participation'. While the corp has space, there will be NO booting of inactives. HOWEVER: Participation will be required to hold a 'team' position, not a seat in the corp. Right now in the planning stage, I'm thinking that pilots will need to participate in a corp op once every 2 weeks to retain their team status. Whether this be in a combat/mining op/support role. Keeping people in the corp that aren't having fun isn't really doing them any favors though. It would be like making incentives for your child to keep playing the flute when they would rather be painting. If people don't want to participate in the teams though, they will be allowed to remain in 5punkorp. When/if the teams grow to the point that they fill all of the available slots, I will begin to *gulp* kick inactives. The first inactives to go will be people that haven't logged in at all for a long period of time. Hopefully the space bought by those members leaving will allow me to skill up on corp management enough to make more slots, otherwise priority will go to team growth, and I will ask non-team participating members to perhaps move to Fw4ppers or another 5punky corp. The last resort would be to kick people that aren't being part of the teams in some way/shape/or form. The system would have to prove very successful at recruiting/training before we would have to go that far. I also hope that I retain enough diversity withing 5punkorp that ALL of our current members can find something in which to participate, because otherwise, what is the point in being in 5punkorp if you don't want to do anything with it?
Sorry for the long post. Go rest your eyes before they shrink and fall out of their sockets!
Something that a quick/small gang with Elo this weekend made me think of is the 'structure' of the new 5punkorp. Anything large needs structure to keep it from crushing itself, even playground equipment! So between typing to 4 people at once, watching local for Goons, and trying to keep my mining lasers active, I looked at the gang setup. It TOTALLY reminded me of the hierarchy in the military. Privates reporting to a seargent, seargent's reporting to a First Seargent, First Seargent's working with a Platoon Leader, Platoon Leaders working with a Company Commander (please excuse the US Army titles, they are in no way indicative of the titles I plan to use in 5punkorp!). Each piece of the 'structure' has people above and below them, but nobody has to worry about the whole group. If one is lost, somebody can move up to take their place. But each unit from squad/platoon/company builds on the strengths of the whole, each group is 'good' at something, even if they're all good at the same thing. The focus isn't on individuals. So I thought of how this could work WITHIN the game mechanics.
And I came up with 'teams'. For the first bunch of recruits, I'm going to build teams. The first 10 will be 'red team', (From Star Wars, ofc). I'll take them with me on recruiting runs as 'security' for the low sec tournaments, giving them jobs and making them feel integral to the process. I'll probably have them act as squad leaders as we build the scale of the tournaments, getting them involved in FC'ing from an early age. (Each red team pilot will get 2 noob prospect pilots for the tournament. The prospects that get the red team pilot approval can join, and the red team pilot that wins the tournament can get promoted to the 'next' level and be in charge of a red team squad.) So the red team will be the first 10. After the next tournament/s with red team assisting, there will be 10 more pilots, with 4 red team pilots being squad leaders to supervise 4 pilots each, and have some gang leader experience to head their own small operations. Keep rinsing and repeating with ever growing groups to go 'shoot-em-up' with, while they're also gaining experience, fitting their ships better, and spreading their interests. When 'red team' hits 40 pilots, (it will take awhile, patience is key, don't worry), we have a decision to make. If there are enough people with shared interests, we will split off a group from red team to become another color of team. Hopefully the group will have enough pilots to make the split even. These will now be the first and second platoons of 5punkorp, with a requirement that anytime membership falls below 20 pilots, that the group must recruit back to 40. The groups will be autonomous, heading their own activities, with the exception of times of war.
Now, for the incentives and combat groups that I've envisioned. Squads without a squad leader will be frig wolf-packs. A squad leader will fly a cruiser, and hopefully have some support capability. Platoon leader a BS. So, as people get skills for shiny ships, they'll want to fly them, thus creating incentive to recruit/train pilots. A condition of Promotion is the pilots to follow you! Of course, some people are not born recruiters, and others are not born leaders. You can train some, but this is a game, and not everyone will stick with it. So people can also earn promotions through support. i.e. industry, support ships in combat, (a medical Domi?!?), and so on. The way these pilots can 'move up' in ship class will be standings work with npc corps, lp store goodies, or industry. i.e. your mission runners and miners can earn fleet ships to support fleet ops by doing what they do best. The more they do it, the better ships they can earn for fleet ops.
This brings us to something that I think is a little complicated. Fleet ships are corp property. Not to be lost to gate camps on your own time. So somehow we'll need to have a method of tracking whom has earned a ship, if it has been built/bought, and the state of the corp insurance on it. I envision a director/platoon leader access sheet on Google for this. Dishing them out can be done over distance by any director using the contract system though, and returned to the corp hangar by anyone. Kinda like issuing weapons to the soldiers, they're only available when needed, and secured the rest of the time. This way fleet ops can happen at a few minutes notice, without any worries of 'I don't have a ship, gimme a few minutes to put one together!' Things such as standard loadout, range of weapons, and such will be standardized, as well as the skill requirements for promotion!
I can hear your thoughts, and this ^ will be optional! I don't forsee too many wanting to leave their buddies though, the thrill of joint accomplishments being such a great thing in this game. Joint mining ops with a mentality like this will be uber though, imagine a security horse of 5 BS's, 20 Cruisers, and 80 frigs skirmishing-to-hull while 20 Hulks and 20 haulers mine like crazy with a Command ship boosting and a freighter hauling ore from a POS set up for the op. Ships will be lost, but a freighter load of cruisers/frigs won't cost too much, not compared to the mining hardware involved! Toss in a Rorq to compress, and you could move a freighters worth of mins with a freighter! (math is assumed!).
Of course, scale that back for the short term while the corp is only fielding only 2 BS's, 8 cruisers, and 32 frigs, (42 pilots, red and blue team). That's quite a crew right there. Oh, and for the people that don't get promoted? They can still be professional privates and earn their AF's, those are still frigs! As are interceptors and such, (interdictors are the T2 cruisers, right?) Of course, they would have to buy them on their own (or possibly earn as a reward), since they can't be corp insured to full value. But the corp could probably sell them to them at a discount if our industrial side grows well enough. Directly recruiting miners might prove harder though, I don't know if a mining tournament would be very successful. Perhaps mining in local at a noob hub and offering gang boosts and talking up ship fits and skills will help though. But good industry will be critical, although that might be better kept seperate in Fw4ppers or some other alt corp to avoid war decs. When we have enough pilots to worry about it, we'll make that choice!
My only hope is that I actually have to worry about having too many 5punkers. Otherwise my goal is recruit recruit recruit! That, and regain my isk stores so I can T2 fit an Ishtar!
One bit I realized I had missed is 'mandatory participation'. While the corp has space, there will be NO booting of inactives. HOWEVER: Participation will be required to hold a 'team' position, not a seat in the corp. Right now in the planning stage, I'm thinking that pilots will need to participate in a corp op once every 2 weeks to retain their team status. Whether this be in a combat/mining op/support role. Keeping people in the corp that aren't having fun isn't really doing them any favors though. It would be like making incentives for your child to keep playing the flute when they would rather be painting. If people don't want to participate in the teams though, they will be allowed to remain in 5punkorp. When/if the teams grow to the point that they fill all of the available slots, I will begin to *gulp* kick inactives. The first inactives to go will be people that haven't logged in at all for a long period of time. Hopefully the space bought by those members leaving will allow me to skill up on corp management enough to make more slots, otherwise priority will go to team growth, and I will ask non-team participating members to perhaps move to Fw4ppers or another 5punky corp. The last resort would be to kick people that aren't being part of the teams in some way/shape/or form. The system would have to prove very successful at recruiting/training before we would have to go that far. I also hope that I retain enough diversity withing 5punkorp that ALL of our current members can find something in which to participate, because otherwise, what is the point in being in 5punkorp if you don't want to do anything with it?
Sorry for the long post. Go rest your eyes before they shrink and fall out of their sockets!
Hiarachy system is essential for when you start growing in size imo in order to correctly manage people. Have a team of people who report directly you regarding exactly what's going on in the corp is important so that you don't do everything yourself and end up getting burnt out. I nearly learn't that the hard way when BS.I suddenly doubled in membership and I had members online 23/7. Trying to keep up with all of them is impossible so I caved into advice and finally deligated stuff to directors. Right now I've got:
One sweedish chap overseeing the eastern EU/african guys
Myself managing the UK ish timezones
1 director in the GMT-5 zone
1 more in the GMT-8 area
Along with a couple of long standing directors doing admin and site maintance. And it works great, I can get up in the morning to talk to the west coast US guys, find out what they've been up to, then early evening I'll find out what my gmt +4 ish guys were doing while I wasn't paying attention early in the afternoon. Evening I tend to lead stuff on Silver (For some reason, the north doesn't like primarying his ECM boats, go figure) and then late at night I hear from the GMT-5 chaps who are just getting in as I'm getting tired.
Around that, they manage stuff to ensure that people have ships jump hauled, POS fuel gets sorted in empire via corp freighters and moved via rorqual/JF as well as leading ops. It's also very important that you pick people who are going to be willing to do that kind of thing, and find ways to have the corp fund fuel for them using capitals to do all this where ever possible. Simply taking a senior member, making him a director and saying ok, now do this doesn't work. I've seen enough directors come and go in my time that it's finally stuck. Willingness over time in corp.
One sweedish chap overseeing the eastern EU/african guys
Myself managing the UK ish timezones
1 director in the GMT-5 zone
1 more in the GMT-8 area
Along with a couple of long standing directors doing admin and site maintance. And it works great, I can get up in the morning to talk to the west coast US guys, find out what they've been up to, then early evening I'll find out what my gmt +4 ish guys were doing while I wasn't paying attention early in the afternoon. Evening I tend to lead stuff on Silver (For some reason, the north doesn't like primarying his ECM boats, go figure) and then late at night I hear from the GMT-5 chaps who are just getting in as I'm getting tired.
Around that, they manage stuff to ensure that people have ships jump hauled, POS fuel gets sorted in empire via corp freighters and moved via rorqual/JF as well as leading ops. It's also very important that you pick people who are going to be willing to do that kind of thing, and find ways to have the corp fund fuel for them using capitals to do all this where ever possible. Simply taking a senior member, making him a director and saying ok, now do this doesn't work. I've seen enough directors come and go in my time that it's finally stuck. Willingness over time in corp.
