Hafnium Contract Offer

friznit · Post by **friznit** » March 14th, 2006, 14:47

Just had a reply to my post on the ISS forum re. the above (reply below for those without access). At work so no access to Eve

. Can someone have a look at the route/feasability quickly and let me know. Also, what do you reckon to this? Downsides being commitment and also Agil is where a lot of war targets hang out at the mo.

From Nyphur of Pillowsoft (ISS):

If you're willing to haul the stuff to Agil (0.9 sec system), I would appreciate a contract sale of 8400 per week (you can do it at 33600 per month if 8400 is too small to be worth hauling). It's not a huge amount but it'd be a regular sale.

shot2bits · Post by **shot2bits** » March 14th, 2006, 15:41

how much are they paying per?

friznit · Post by **friznit** » March 14th, 2006, 16:36

Dunno yet, will look at feasability of whether we can even haul it that route and match the monthly target then discuss the finer points in game. Clearly if we can sell it at an easy 2500 in Jita and that's as convenient then we'll turn down the offer. But it could work in our favour.

friznit · Post by **friznit** » March 15th, 2006, 19:22

That route sucks - it's either HED or Kari, both of which are camped up the ying yang. Now, there are one or two other offers for Haf coming in, but this is the most interesting proposition so far: Hafnium + Dysprosium = Ferrofluids. Here's how the numbers go:

Mine 2400 haf per day (currently sells for 2500 in Jita)
Buy 2400 dysp per day (market rate is ~6000 pu or ISS contract is poss)
React to make 4800 Ferrofluids per day (Medium Reactor = 11mill)
Sell Ferrofluids at ~7000 pu (contract or market)
Net profit (Ferro sales - lost Haf sales - dysp purchase) = 13.2 mill per day = ~370mill per month
Fuel with the POS run at max capacity (using full LO & HW) + ISS fees = ~176 per month
Total Net profit = 193 per month

Incidentally, this is about 200 mill per month more than we earn currently.

shot2bits · Post by **shot2bits** » March 15th, 2006, 23:25

if you can get a decent contract on the dysp, so we have a certain buy on it and a set price each time, then i say go for it

but im not the CEO, amblin, your thoughts?

amblin · Post by **amblin** » March 16th, 2006, 0:28

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » March 16th, 2006, 7:23

Dudes

Sorry in advance for my pessimism and negativity, but here's my 2p;

1. The Day shift

The day shift has not been hauling lately. Partly due to personal issues, partly due to the 2 main pipes being constantly

camped / patrolled during the day. Even 10mins after DT is not safe. Worst are the patrollers, in AFs and recon cruisers who can catch us, even using instas. 2 characters; Demundus and Grondeal are particular pests and support each other with AF/BS combo

. I'm fairly sure they're the same player, which is double the problem because even if you get hit by the AF and can try to fight it off, the BS will be there before it's all over ... then it will be. We need to get this going again, though, or we're gonna be in the poop with POS fuel in 5 days or so. OTOH, Yak is to start a new job soon, which is great for him

but will effectively strangle the day shift

. Yak is the only one on who can haul significant loads

.

2. Value added Haf

Adding value to the haf sounds like a great idea

. One point; the risk we take atm is in hauling Haf from 0.0 to empire. If we have to buy and haul an expensive product out there (dysp) and the *really* expensive finished product back, we multiply our risk. Can we refine this in empire? that way we're only risking the haf run, which we are anyway comitted to. If refining costs are higher in empire, we need to judge that against increased hauling risks (see xx,000 units of Haf lost by the dayshift, including me, last week)

3. Taking supply contracts

A fixed supply contract would require us to be reliable in the face of the state of the pipes

. I'm not saying that we won't be capable of this in the future, but do we have the manpower / strength to guarantee regular haulage at the moment? If there's a good market for the end product, I would vote we use that, rather than risk pissing off a contract customer, it's a lot more flexible. Buying the Dysp on contract though is another matter, I see no downside in that, especially if we get it delivered to hi-sec.

in short; added value is a great idea, even better if we can do it without incurring significant additional risk. We need to get hauling again on the day-shift and I personally am not sure that we're mature enough to be taking on fixed supply contracts.

To try and add at least something constructive; what about discussing with the Brazilians joining their hauler runs and how is the situation with freighter runs to Marginis?

This has been my 2p

friznit · Post by **friznit** » March 16th, 2006, 9:24

All very valid points and trust me, we won't go into this until I have negotiated every inch of the deal. A few things that I have in hand to mitigate our circumstances (and not just for this, but for the whole situation):

1. One week of 'criticallly low' fuels (i.e. anything we have less than 7 days of at the POS) is currently sitting on an ISS Freighter waiting to be escorted to Marginis tonight. If we can get it together in time for 1900 tonight (mining op notwithstanding) then we could piggy back on the escorted run down past W9 - or add more to the frieghter which is only about half full at the mo (Count T is the pilot). In fact, I'm gonna put that in bold cos its a 'very good idea'.

2. Ushra'khan have sov in G-5 again. They're a role playing anti-rat corp. Good news for us. With ISSN now running the Prov pipe too, the night shift is almost safer than the day shift for hauling.

3. I need to crunch the numbers on a med reactor at the POS. Incidentally, there was one going for 13 mill at Marginis yesterday - only 2 mill over the empire price. I might invest using my own funds just to snap it up

4. The market for Vanadium Haf seems poor. Lots of people selling, not many buyers. Not looked in any detail tho. (Also, I'm really not sure we up to a second POS right now - however small - tho would welcome everyone's thoughts on this).

5. On contracts: pros and cons clearly. Guaranteed buyers/suppliers over the fact that its an agreement ofc. I'd rather deliver monthly rather than weekly. I'd accept a lower sale price if it meant not hauling all the way to the other end of Eve. Supplies of Dysp would almost certainly have to come from Marginis area (to avoid the high risk camp hauls) hence putting the price up.

One point that I'd like to hilight though: at current rates of usage, we only just break even on POS fuel vs Haf sales. Therefore any lost haf is an immediate loss in net 'profits'. OTOH, ferrofluids have max net profits of 200 mill (as shown below, taking into account fuel, ISS fees and the fact we're not selling haf anymore). Even if we lose a shipment and cut our profit margins by buying expensive Dysp and/or selling ferro cheaper - we still stand to make more money than we do now.

Fea/Fab/Hulk - question if I may. Feasability of bunging a small pos with reactor in empire space near to Khank?

bomberesque · Post by **bomberesque** » March 16th, 2006, 9:31

friznit wrote:Fea/Fab/Hulk - question if I may. Feasability of bunging a small pos with reactor in empire space near to Khank?

/me likes where this idea is going...

oooh oooh, and if the freighter service is kicking off again, is it possible / worth it to get a bum load of 5punkships transported out to Marginis. I'd like to get in on the fleet action (there are several ad-hoc engagements during the day up there) but cannot be arsed to fly a dozen suicide frigs up there one by one. For sure others feel that way and from what I hear the market there is still desparately short of ships .. or I may be out of date on that as it's been a week or so since I was there...

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » March 16th, 2006, 10:45

My vote would also go to a new low sec empire POS. Perhaps in somewhere like Hoth so we could ignore that need for some kind of charter in the POS to run it in high sec empire. Mainly because, as already pointed out, losing Haf isn't a huge cripling blow, but losing some dysp would be alow more serous. Setting up a reactor in empire would reduce this risk, though it does of course bring extra start-up fees.

Also, to my knowledge, to run at full production we'd need two reactors, but most of you know more about this junk than me so I could easily be wrong. Just think it's worth looking into.

Overall, 200 mil profit a month + what our providance shares are going to give us. Lets go for it

Post by **Dog Pants** » March 16th, 2006, 10:54

I'd say opening up a med tower in W9 should only be attempted once fuelling our first POS becomes second nature, otherwise we'll just compound our fuel problems.

Also, I know the question about an Empire POS wasn't directed at me but can someone give those of us less informed a quick overview of what this will entail. I was under the impression you couldn't set up as POS in Empire (although I don't know where I got that impression from).

Lee · Post by **Lee** » March 16th, 2006, 10:56

And would we be able to mine the moon at our empire pos aswell? That'd give us even more monies.

Post by **fabyak** » March 16th, 2006, 11:00

you can set up a POS in anywhere with 0.4 sec or less afaik

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » March 16th, 2006, 11:06

and up to 0.7 (but no guns or reactors) so long as you have some sort of charters you don't need for low sec/0.0 as part of the fuel requirements

Lee wrote:And would we be able to mine the moon at our empire pos aswell? That'd give us even more monies.

Depends if it would be worth it for the extra fuel we'd eat up using one. Worth a look though.

Wiggy · Post by **Wiggy** » March 16th, 2006, 11:28

What about that 0.4 sec system next to Berta? Can't rememeber the name, but it'd be better hauling a finished product from there than from 0.0. Should be easier to fuel as well, with no gankers. And we can put guns on

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » March 16th, 2006, 11:29

Hehulk wrote:My vote would also go to a new low sec empire POS. Perhaps in somewhere like Hoth

amblin · Post by **amblin** » March 16th, 2006, 11:54

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » March 31st, 2006, 11:00

Not quite sure where we are with a contract for dysprosium and ferrofuilds, but I found a link on the POS funtime site (link here) for several corps that sell dysprosium, and one that wants to buy ferrofluids.

Is this of any use?

amblin · Post by **amblin** » March 31st, 2006, 11:05

Hehulk · Post by **Hehulk** » March 31st, 2006, 11:06

amblin wrote:Hell yeah. Thanks Hulk. That's next weeks job sorted!